The Hard Facts: Do Looks Matter?

Here is an interesting discussion that was sparked by a frustrated troll named PinkSmoke, which garnished some GREAT food for thought. I hope you enjoy it!

-SeductionMaestro



ok, I know you rightbrained pansies hate facts and logic so I'll keep it to a minimum. I've read some studies about mate selection done on speed daters. basically it's a statistical analysis of correlation of certain characteristics (age, weight, height, education, etc) and matches (proposals) made. for those of you that don't know how speed dating works, it's basically a bunch of guys talk to a bunch of girls for 3-4 minutes each and then later tell the organizers who they liked and if the persons they like also liked them back, they get each other's contact information. so this is not showing women pictures of men and asking them questions, this is women meeting men in a realistic environment and making real choices that have real consequences.

so here are the conclusions:

Can Anyone Be "The" One? Evidence on Mate Selection from Speed Dating (Michèle Belot, Marco Francesconi - October 2006 - http://ftp.iza.org/dp2377.pdf)

"Both women and men put comparable weights on observable physical attributes: women prefer men who are young and tall, while men are more attracted to women who are young and thin. Interestingly, age, height, and weight are correlated to education and occupation, while other physical traits that are not – such as eye colour and hair colour – are also not relevant to subjects’ dating decisions. Therefore, when proposing to a potential partner, female and male subjects only use partners’ physical attributes that are good predictors of socioeconomic status."


HurryDate: Mate preferences in action (Robert Kurzban, Jason Weeden - http://www.psych.upenn.edu/PLEEP/pdfs/2005%20Kurzban%20&%20Weeden%20EHB.pdf)

"HurryDate events provide strong evidence of the importance of generally agreed-upon mate values as opposed to mate values driven by assortative or other attribute-matching trends, and these generally agreed-upon mate values derive almost exclusively from observable attributes, such as physical attractiveness, BMI, height, age, and race. HurryDate participants are given three minutes in which to make their judgments, but they mostly could be made in three seconds. Other than the very broad and unsurprising result that women are more selective than men are, the centrally predictable fact from HurryDate events is that women’s desirability is dominated by their relative thinness, a finding consistent with data from personal ads. Such findings support both theoretical emphasis on men’s attention to physical attractiveness and lay intuitions that men care most deeply about women’s body size and shape. Our findings also indicate that, at least in the context of HurryDate events, women show similar physically driven preferences. While men at HurryDate events are strongly attracted to women who are thin, young, attractive, and of a similar race, women strongly prefer men who are physically attractive, tall, young, of medium build, and of a similar race. Women’s preferences are not strongly determined by a single trait, but, collectively, their preferences are driven by appearance."

"Many traits had surprisingly little effect on people’s desirability at HurryDate events, including education and income, previous marriages, having children, concordant desires for future children, religious compatibility, appetites with respect to casual sex, and having similar habits with regard to smoking and drinking."

"Heavier women said yes to a relatively high proportion of potential dates, as did men who were either heavy or very thin."

"Income played a role in men’s selectivity, although it did not affect their desirability: Although women showed no preference for higher income men, these men were more selective. When men and women increase their selectivity, they exclude less desirable people. The result is that more selective men choose and are matched with women who are, on average, thinner, younger, and more attractive, while more selective women end up choosing and being matched with men who are taller, younger, and more attractive. Consequently, desirable women (specifically women with low BMI) end up matched with higher income men, not because these women select higher income men, but because higher income men are more selective."




so, yes looks do matter for women as much as men, or even more for women as they are more selective than men.

-PinkSmoke



Speed Dating is about a girl going out and picking a specific type of guy from a line-up. It is not a microcosm- it is a closed experiment.
Keep thinking women care as much about looks as men based on a quarantined ecosystem if you want to. Hope it gets you somewhere.
I for one am glad I'm a man, cuz I know from experience that men don't need looks to have sex with 10s, but most of the time women do.
OK Yoko Ono got John Lennon, but I believe he was just trying to prove one of his "enlightened" points.

I'll give you a hint: my brother is male model attractive, and he used to get more girls than me. Now I'm balding, he's still super-fine, but I get him chicks nowadays. I even have to do stuff so they won't try switching to me. Go figure.

How am I different today? My looks? Nope. Did I get younger? Nope.

Irresistable confidence. An aura of animal magnetism. And most importantly...fun! The kind of fun girls drool for.

-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com


your individual experience means nothing. my experience is that guys need to look good to get laid, more so than girls because I know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly unlike unattractive guys. but my experience doesn't matter either, what matters is the hard data that proves that chicks want young, tall, good looking guys and that all other characteristics are subordinate.


and yes, you're selling seduction shit (seduction album as well as affiliate links to peddler-gurus) so since you obviously can't sell looks you're discounting them as unimportant.

-PinkSmoke

"your individual experience means nothing."

Yeah but look around KJ.
I'm not the only one.

"my experience is that guys need to look good to get laid, more so than girls because I know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly unlike unattractive guys."

I didn't say that they weren't getting laid. The question is, who are they getting laid by?
Sure, unattractive guys don't get laid as much. But for men, attractiveness is not synonomous with "good looks"
Howard Stern isn't unattractive, but he's sure as hell UGLY. Mich Jagger is sexy as hell, but he is also fucking UGLY as sin.

Sure you'll play the "celebrity card" on that example, but if I tell you about the bucktoothed guy down the street who's fucking a local model, you won't know who I'm talking about. But open your eyes and you'll see fat dudes with hotties all the time.

And having been in the music business for a while now, I can tell you that charisma generally comes BEFORE fame, not FROM fame.
No charisma, no fame.




"ut my experience doesn't matter either, what matters is the hard data that proves that chicks want young, tall, good looking guys and that all other characteristics are subordinate."

But your facts come from a microcosm called Speed Dating. It has very little to do with how people hook up in the real world.
In 5 minutes all a girl can tell is looks and style. And she went there to find her "type."
No chance of her being enlightened by what would actually fulfill her. No chance of her being seduced like she's always wanted to be by a man who isn't her brainwashed "type"... and it's
because of her focus, venue, and time restraints.
Also, what women say they want and what they actually respond to are very different things. I'm sure the 24 year old girl I hooked up with last weekend would have SAID that she preferred the type she blew off for me (a good looking guy MUCH closer to her age) if she had been questioned before the experience.

Women SAY they want to meet nice guys too. Is it true?


"nd yes, you're selling seduction shit (seduction album as well as affiliate links to peddler-gurus) so since you obviously can't sell looks you're discounting them as unimportant."

No, I'm not selling the album anymore. One of the artists got a deal and pulled three songs. And I haven't made any money off of those affiliate links to speak of.

But if you want to limit your belief system with microcosms, statistics from questionaires to women (who notoriously don't even know what they want anyway), and friggin' Speed Dating of all the ghey things in the world...I wish you good luck widdat!

The thought of a yopung, sweaty palmed male model ass kisser with no callouses on his hands stealing a prospect from ME, on the other hand? Laughable.

Guys, most of them don't give a shit if the girl is confident, or socially well adjusted, or even entertaining...as long as she's hot and has some brain cells guys want her. On the other hand, you can be Fabio and still turn off a girl in 30 seconds just by being LSE.

Like I said, glad I'm a man and not a woman.
We got pick-up, and all they got is the knife. For the most part.

-SeductionMaestro

>Yeah but look around KJ.
>I'm not the only one.

even if all the bragging shit on this board were true, you'd still be outnumbered 100 to 1 by guys who can't get laid because of their looks. and I've met many community guys and seen them work so I have a pretty good idea of how much of it is truth and how much is fiction in the lay reports.


>I didn't say that they weren't
>getting laid. The question is,
>who are they getting laid by?

by guys who are relatively more attractive than they are. it's easier for a girl to get laid than for a guy period... so it's not surprising that there are many more couples where the girl is relatively less attractive than the guy than vice versa. I know it seems to you that in many couples the girl is more attractive than the guy (that's because you're hardwired to notice girls' attractiveness) but the data is clear.


>Sure you'll play the "celebrity card"
>on that example, but if I tell you about
>the bucktoothed guy down the street
>who's fucking a local model, you
>won't know who I'm talking about.

you're right, I won't because I don't know many (if any) guys in that situation. if a physically unattractive guy gets hot girls he's either rich or has high status in some environment or both. this is my experience but I try not to use it as an argument because it's a subjective thing. that's why there is hard data about what women actually go for.


>But open your eyes and you'll
>see fat dudes with hotties all
>the time.

no, I've been paying attention for years and finding an attractive girl with an unattractive guy is very rare. if you look at 100 couples, a great majority will be broadly equal in attractiveness, some will have the guy who is hotter (relatively) than the girl and even fewer will have the girl who is hotter. but you can't process that - you can only process your own (probably atypical) experience and some special cases like "that one bucktoothed guy" or celebrities, forgetting the hundreds of guys in the neighborhood who can't get chicks because they are short, ugly, fat, old, whatever.


>Women SAY they want to meet
>nice guys too. Is it true?

these studies were not about what they said they like, these studies are about what they did. this was not an experiment nor it was a questionnaire, this was just data of what actually happened. I know you guys here hate any sort of controlled environment because it will debunk your bullshit theories and systems in a second.

you can't fool hundreds of millions of years of natural selection with some funny stories from a website.


so, what is the point of all this? simple, stop telling people looks don't matter. the verdict is in - looks and height and age (youth) do matter most so the first priority of any guy who wants to get more women is to look hotter and younger (as for height, tough shit).

-PinkSmoke


PinkSmoke wrote:

>your individual experience
>means nothing.

Means nothing to whom?

my experience
>is that guys need to look good
>to get laid, more so than
>girls because I know plenty of
>unattractive girls who are
>getting fucked regularly
>unlike unattractive guys.

Are you some sort of special case, or is that just because you're the one who's fucking them?

Anyway,

UGs do get fucked a lot, by guys who think they can't get better looking women.

Do you still contend that "guys need to look good more so than women, because you know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly"?????

Lol, what's your deal?

You're either a dude who just had a labotomy, or you're a really ugly girl.

Anyway,

but
>my experience doesn't matter
>either, what matters is the
>hard data that proves that
>chicks want young, tall, good
>looking guys and that all
>other characteristics are
>subordinate.

You are definately over qualifying speed dating's marketing strategies.

>and yes, you're selling
>seduction shit (seduction
>album as well as affiliate
>links to peddler-gurus) so
>since you obviously can't sell
>looks you're discounting them
>as unimportant.

Looks are important, but it's not the only thing that matters when it comes to women.

Women will sleep with a midget who has elephantitis if he pushes their buttons(I know, it turns my stomach too, but that's just the way it is).

Women are that way, because God made'em that way. Got a problem with it; Take it up with him.

Anyway,

As far as women being able to attract men, looks matter more to men, but still aren't the only thing that matters, at least not to guys who have relationships with women.

Once you start sleeping with a lot of women, you soon begin to realize that looks aren't the most important thing when it comes to a desirable mate, although they are important for attraction purposes.

Something else that you soon realize, or come to the conclusion of, is this, if I'm going to sleep with someone that I can't stand to be around for more than a few days at a time, then she's definately going to be good looking/good in bed, prefferably a combination of both.

There is more to the picture than meets the eye, if you had any real experience you'd know that attraction and compatibility are not the same thing, and speed dating is societies replacement for the bowling alley and the drive-in movie theater.

All of which are irrelevant to PU, although the contrast does make for great comedy material.

-Tinchun


HurryDates are nothing like everyday pickup, especially pickup in enviroments like campuses, bookstores, parties e.t.c

They may only be remotely similar to a situation when a doll at a disco/bar is courted by several guys at once, but even this is a remote similarity.

Not all mating activities are similar and relate to one another.
There is a scientific fact that the only statistically significant trait important to dolls when looking for husbands is the size of their bank acounts.

But everyday PU is nothing like a situation of a doll looking for a husband. Its nothing like a hurry date either.

Its a well known fact that good physicall looks increase the chance of a succesfull PU, but they are far from being the most important factor. Especially in the classical 7 hours scenario the guys social skills, communicativeness, ability to EV e.t.c are more important that looks alone.

-Ardashir



PinkSmoke wrote:

>my experience doesn't matter
>either, what matters is the
>hard data

I realise you're a troll and I shouldn't be feeding your desire for drama and attention, but this is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read in my life.

ALL THAT FUCKING MATTERS IS YOUR EXPERIENCE

Do you think when your time comes, you'll be lying on your death bed looking at an excel spreadsheet saying "Well, the hard data conclusively proves I've had a good life"? Or will you be looking back on your EXPERIENCES in order to make that judgement?

Does it matter what the average girl thinks of the average guy? Or does it matter what the girl you're talking to RIGHT NOW thinks of YOU?

0/10 for trolling, 10/10 for sheer stupidity.

-Lucha (ps, don't bother replying, I'm done with your stupid ass)




Despite this being a typical troll post, the studies are worthy of comment.

It is absolutely true that if *GIVEN NO OTHER VARIABLE* people will choose based on appearance.

I mean, obviously, if you line up 10 guys and ask a woman to choose one, she is going to pick the hottest guy. Duh.

Thats essentially what speed dating is. I have always thought (and would love to try taking my ugly ass to a speed dating event, if there were any in my area) that a pickup artist could get crazy results. Most guys are going to be boring in 3-4 minutes. A PUA can get in kino, C&F, run a routine/pattern on a chick, and BE DIFFERENT. Will he do better than the hot guy? Not necessarily. Can he negate the disadvantage of less-than-good-looks and do *JUST AS WELL* as the hot guy? Through PU tech, BL, peacocking, etc- Absolutely.

Looks play a tremendous role in ease-of-approach. Women (and men) are far more receptive to an approach from an attractive person than an ordinary or unattractive person. Thats why I keep harping that guys here should honestly rate their own attractiveness when posting FRs/LRs. Some guys think they are approaching a chick and "putting her under my spell" with "deep gazing" and other jedi mind tricks, when the fact of the matter is they are just an attractive man with the balls to approach a female, and could have gotten the same result just by going up to her and saying "Hi".

The flip side of that is if you DONT have looks, you need to run very indirect game, IMO. If you are an HB and an ugly guy approaches you with direct game you are going to blow him out in a heartbeat. You can get what he is offering from a lot better looking guys. So UGs (like me) do best when we come in below the radar. The ideal scenario should be that an ugly guy approaches HB indirectly, is cool, confident, and relaxed, develops rapport and builds comfort with HB, who starts to think "What an amazing guy", then escalates, induces good feelings, and closes the deal. You want to master the ability to approach hot women in such a way as not to make them think "This ugly dude is trying to pick me up", but rather, "This guy seems really nice/cool/interesting." Thats HARD, because women are FUCKING GOOD at knowing when a guy is trying to pick them up.


And as for "ugly guys dont get laid"- crap. Ugly guys who have no game get laid all the time. Usually by ugly girls. Or in return for playing the provider role. Or they just happen to get lucky and find an emotionally vulnerable hot chick.

Ugly guys with game are at least as successful as hot guys with no game.

Caveat: by Ugly Guy I am referring to guys who are simply not good looking. The 5's and 6's of the guy world. Im not talking seriously disfigured dudes.

-JetSetJim




at least I got someone to agree that looks matter..... you'd think I was claiming the Earth is flat



ok, now about having 'game'... there is no such thing as game. science has confirmed that chicks will choose guys based on opportunities, genetics and socioeconomic status. that's it, that's science. if you're looking to 'beat the system', you should be working on those three areas, namely approaching more chicks, looking as good as you can and not being a nobody (everything from unemployed stoner to running your own web design company - you're nobody unless you're important).

as for what is called 'game' in this community, it's laughable. half the stuff contradicts the other half. be high energy but talk slow. act silly but be alpha. be sexual but act aloof. convey your personality yet say this this and this. the truth is none of you really know what works and what doesn't, because it's practically impossible for a single guy to be able to accumulate and process a large enough sample to have a clear answer. you approach a hundred chicks, fuck 5 of them (yeah, right!) and you think you got some brilliant strategy down? ridiculous! maybe we'd know what works if we pooled all our experiences in a systematic way but there is so much business interests and lying in the community that you might as well be reading Maxim or hanging around in lockerrooms.

-PinkSmoke



The contradictory stuff is from different schools of thought, cuz there is more than one way to skin a cat. Or because they are not contradictions, but your limiting viewpoint assimilates it that way. In some cases it's even also that one of the contradicting viewpoints is totally false, after all we're on a public message board.

If you really believe what you say, then I guess you believe that a whiny, needy, shy, supplicant, low self esteem male model has the same chance to be with a woman as his confident, social, communicative, sexual, fun identical twin brother. If you want to take that kind of garbage with you through life then have fun. I really think you are just too dense to understand what "game" is, and you really don't understand why people go to Speed Dating conferences or the differences about how they think when they go to one as opposed to how they are thinking when they go to a bar, mall, coffee shop, etc.

If you're just here to troll because you have resigned yourself to the evolutionary fate of your unchangeable "league," then have fun with that. I guess there is no helping you, then.

-Seduction Maestro




hey pinksmoke

consider this

you come here hardly getting laid at all learn some techniques, go out and get laid heaps and your looks didnt change.

which is the case for alot of people here

now taking this into account it is hard for alot of people to then beleive looks are really important because they have proven for themselves they are not.

The real question isnt wether looks matter its wether you could change your looks enough to make a difference. The overall consensus from the shape of the world today is no you cant or every guy would have. Why are no guys getting plastic surgery, why is there not many guys getting jacked up in the gym, why arent guys wearing shoes to make them taller?

this leaves 2 possibilities. -Guys dont care that much what they are fucking as long as they get laid so no motivation to get better looking.(highly possible)
-other stuff which is easier to change gets you laid more so again not efficient to spend time and energy changing looks.

even the fact that guys dont wear make-up?
how does that fit into looks being really important, surely it would be silly not too if it made your more attractive and that was the most important thing in getting laid.

yet when it comes to gaining socail status every guy in the world is striving for it. Be it sport, music, job, even wow.
Conincadence?

maybe when you have high social status you get really high confidence?

which leads to easy success with women?



so yes looks matter and life will be harder for ugly guys but what are they gonna do; lie there like a bitch or jump da fuck up (to quote corey taylor)
it would be like trying to convince a guy in a wheelchair that having no legs sucks.


an ugly guy with game will get laid more than a ugly guy wihtout game

a good looking guy with game will get laid more than a good looking guy without game

therefore game=good.


looks=cant be changed significantly enough to even warrant thinking about

if you place value on looks you then have to place highest value on a good looking girl which is highly counter productive.

its like in the matrix when neo asks the oracle something and it tells him an answer which turns out to be incorrect and neo is like but you are supposed to know everyhing?

and the oracle is like i do thats why i told you that answer not because it was true but because i knew how it would make you act.

you need alternate realities in your head. Accept looks matter while also ignoring it.




or go and listen to the blueprint by tyler durden which is fucking incredible and best ever what is the matrix version of life i have ever heard and i could probably write an answer 10 times as long once i have finished listening to it

-Tasman



>you come here hardly getting laid at
>all learn some techniques, go out
>and get laid heaps and your looks
>didnt change.
>which is the case for alot of people
>here

heh, the reality is most people in the community never approached a woman in their life before coming here. then they got some 'techniques', approached hundreds of women and got to have sex with 2-3 of them. then they post about their conquest, (often overstating the girls' attractiveness) like they did something extraordinary. and that's just people who don't make shit up outright.

and it's not true that people here think looks don't matter. they say looks don't matter but you know you should see what they do, not listen to what they say. there is a lot of grooming and fashion advice, many people here go to the gym (at least 50%), there is talk about platform shoes that make you seem taller... a lot of advice from Mystery and Style and Tyler Durden has to do with appearance. shit, both Mystery and Style wear makeup and platform shoes and are obsessive about their clothes and appearance in general.

look, the data is clear: chicks are attracted primarily to looks and social status. now you can try to confuse them about your social status by acting confident or telling stories or whatnot (DHV) but as the data shows, it doesn't work that well because the female brain has that shit down pat after a million generations.

the male brain also figured stuff out during all that time. as you said:

>yet when it comes to gaining
>socail status every guy in the
>world is striving for it. Be it
>sport, music, job, even wow.

so yes, the best way to increase your chances with women is high social status, that's why we're wired to strive for it. not because you'll get confidence (or our brain would simply make us feel confident) but because chicks are also attracted to high social status (as the data shows). but the community insists that this confidence must come from nothing otherwise it's not 'real'. that's just idiotic.


look, what happens in the community is that a normal guy hits on hundreds of normal girls, gets to fuck a few of them and credits his 'game' for it. it's not game, it's just normal for a normal guy to fuck normal girls, it's how life works. you approach a chick, she sizes you up physically in one second, then it takes her anywhere from 3 seconds to 3 minutes to see where you are on the social totem pole and then her brain does the math. what you prattle about David Bowie or some girls fighting outside simply doesn't matter. the data proves it!

-PinkSmoke

Pink, you're a dumbass. And stubborn too. Tell you what, come sarging with me and I will walk up to 30 girls and just be cool and friendly. Then I will walk up to thirty girls and use pattern language, qualification, values elicitation, anchors, cold reading, frame stealing, and push and pull. Then you can see for yourself the difference.

Instead of assuming that everyone is a nerd and that this is just a numbers game, why don't you stop being a KJ?

If you weren't a KJ, you could go out and do this exact experiment for yourself and see what I am talking about.

Unless you are a total creep and it doesn't matter what you do cuz you're subcommunication sux, I can guarantee that you will do 500% better when you use the skills.

-Seduction Maestro




ok, I'm a dumbas KJ but you're a lying piece of shit. you lied that there are four chicks to every guy in Atlanta and you were lying about your success for commercial purposes. what if you're lying about this too? if you turn out to be a douchebag who can't pull, will you reimburse my travel expenses? what if you're lying about that too?

you're the perfect representative of the seduction community, peddling crap, lying your ass off and insulting people who disagree with you.

-PinkSmoke




How was I lying about my success, pray tell?
Every field report I've posted is true, every occurence I've talked about with women.

And I wasn't lying about the ratio in Atlanta, I was repeating information that had been told to me from several different independent sources. That's being misinformed, not lying, if you know the english language and understand basic communication.

See, only nerds check that kind of information meticulously like you did.

I don't really care that much what the ratio of men to women in Atlanta is. All I know is that when I go out in Buckhead, there are alot more women than men, and what people have told me. Sorry I didn't check my facts like a nerdy historian when talking about...lol...an easy, casual thing like picking up girls.

And what are these commercial reasons? Let me repeat, my blog has not sold a single product through affiliate links. I am sorry that it offends you that I am displaying the methods which I actually recommend and know to work. I figured if anyone actually buys one, I might as well make the 50 cents off of it. I could display them without an affiliate link, I guess, but that would just be stupid.

And, again, Songs of Seduction has not been on the market for 5 months. Can't make money off of something that isn't for sale, you know!

What you're basically saying is that you have the same chance with a woman no matter if you talk about trigonometry or have fun flirting with her, because she's either going to jump on you for your good looks or not, no matter what you say or what "vibe" you project. If you really believe that, you are either incapable of learning from experiences in the real world or you're locked in a bubble somewhere with no contact to the outside world.

Now...may evolution have it's way with you, hardhead.

Or go get plastic surgery, then maybe you'll see the light when you find that your lays have not increased from it.


-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com





"so yes, the best way to increase your chances with women is high social status, that's why we're wired to strive for it. not because you'll get confidence (or our brain would simply make us feel confident) but because chicks are also attracted to high social status (as the data shows). but the community insists that this confidence must come from nothing otherwise it's not 'real'. that's just idiotic"



consider this
long ago you lived in a tribe and needed your tribe to like you. If your tribe didnt like you and kicked you out you died. Also if alpha male decided to bash you over the head with a rock and kill you he could.

Now think about approach anxiety. Surely it must be there for a reason or it would not have survived evolution.

Conclusion your brain is very smart and is always assessing your value in a situation and when it is high it gives you confidence to game hardout and be successful and when your value is low it makes you act safe. If you gamed hard out with low value in caveman days you would risk death or being kicked out of tribe so death.

Knowing this the secret is to be in the confident state as much as possible which is obviously going against how your brain is wired so takes alot of effort.

now what is a really counterproductive belief to being confident?

im not good looking enough so i cant be successful with women...

see the problem here


its like the belief whatever you do in life is pointless because in 100 years you will be dead. Maybe true but completely useless. Even if 5 million studies found life to be a waste of time no-one would change their life because of it.

look

Im pretty confident the main thing you get from game is the confidence to approach alot of women which goes against your brains natural logic. And yes i beleave its just a numbers game.

But its a two part numbers game. You should also learn the importance of value and how to structure your life to increase your value over time.


or sit at home think looks are the most important thing and they cant be changed so if your ugly its all over, give up and play wow


your choice...




or if you want a much more detailed 20 hour explanation of this listen to the blueprint.

-Tasman






Tasman,
If it were just a number's game, and it were just about confidence and looks, then walking up to a woman and talking about cleaning latrines or monster trucks would be just as effective as walking up to her and flirting, or being cocky and funny, or complimenting her, or cold reading her.

While Pink is maybe dense enough to believe that, I don't think that you are.


-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com




well yeah i did make an assumption

that every approach you learn and improve


and by that reasoning it is a numbers game.


but yeah ignored the stupid factor im sure theres somebody in the world who gets worse with every approach

...


rapists...



apparantly that polish guy who kept his daughter in his basement and kept raping her defence goes like this

i was born to rape and im actually a really good amazing person who has managed to contain this for so much of my life when an ordinary person could not have.

so therefore im a good person.

im sure theres even some idiot out there who thinks this does make him a good person.

meh im going to band practise

-Tasman




>effective as walking up to her
>and flirting, or being cocky
>and funny, or complimenting her,
>or cold reading her.

look, talking about monster trucks or your hemorrhoids is an extreme that of course will hurt your chances. that's not lack of game, that's being an idiot.

but if you're a normal guy who looks good and has money and is somebody and your competition is some balding, fat guy with 'game' (what you call game is basically a bunch of conversational gimmicks learned from a website or a book), in that case the good looking normal guy will get the girl most of the time.

does having 'game' hurt you? no, not really (unless it's some creepy miscalibrated routine)... what does hurt you is believing looks don't matter and neglecting to improve yourself in that regard. what hurts you is believing money and status don't matter and nor improving yourself in those areas. what hurts you is spending hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on going out to clubs, seminars, DVDs, fucking seduction songs... when maybe all you needed was a hair transplant, teeth whitening, some nice clothes or a diet.

-PinkSmoke




>look, talking about monster trucks or your >hemorrhoids is an extreme that of course >will hurt your chances. that's not lack of >game, that's being an idiot.

yeah, and 99.9% of men are idiots when it comes to picking up women.

>but if you're a normal guy who looks good >and has money and is somebody and your >competition is some balding, fat guy >with 'game' (what you call game is >basically a bunch of conversational >gimmicks learned from a website or a >book), in that case the good looking >normal guy will get the girl most of the >time.

I disagree, because I'm balding and middle class and that has not been my experience.
PLEASE sport your Beemer or your Rolex while you're in competition with me, cuz it will make it even easier.
Granted, I'm tall and decent looking and have a bit of fashion sense. But what gives me the leg up is that I'm 200% more confident than 99.9% of men, much less needy than 99.9% of men, and I know how to fascinate women, recreate a sense of connection, and get them horny with my words and actions.

>does having 'game' hurt you? no, not >really (unless it's some creepy >miscalibrated routine)... what does hurt >you is believing looks don't matter and >neglecting to improve yourself in that >regard.

Who said anything about neglecting it? It's just that it's not as important as you seem to be making it out to be, based on facts from an isolated microcosmic phenomena called "Speed Dating."




> what hurts you is believing money and >status don't matter and nor improving >yourself in those areas.

It's not always possible to improve those things, and they aren't as important to "good girls" (the kind that won't even let you buy them a drink because they value love and connections more than money or fame).

For golddiggers, sure money is a PRIME factor. For freaks social status is of sometimes of prime importance too.


>what hurts you is spending hundreds of >hours and thousands of dollars on going >out to clubs, seminars, DVDs, fucking >seduction songs... when maybe all you >needed was a hair transplant, teeth >whitening, some nice clothes or a diet.

You really think that just that stuff alone will up you from 0 lays to one lay a month or more with beautiful women like PUA skills can?

Don't you realize that some men have approach anxiety and have NEVER approached a woman cold? Don't you realize that certain coaches have excercizes which overcome this? Don't your realize that many, many men have escalation anxiety, and the only time they've ever been laid is when they happened upon a really aggressive woman? Don't you realize that some of the routines are geared towards making people comfortable and OK with going in for a kiss or using kino?

Do you really think it's just as effective for a good looking guy to walk up to a stranger and ask her out or for a phone number (like I have seen SOOO many AFCs do) as it is to walk up to her, make her feel comfortable and intrigued by what you say, and then move to the next step?

I think the thing that you might be missing, besides the fact that women use more than just LOOKS to determine what's attractive to them in the real world (as opposed to when they're just looking at photos or having/viewing short interview style encounters), is that a woman cannot possibly fuck all of the guys she finds attractive...that women find many more men attractive than you would believe...and that there are societal consequences to fucking too many of the men she finds attractive. OR for fucking a man she just wants a ONS from and not a relationship, or vice versa. Also, you underestimate how positively BAD most men are in bed, and underestimate a man's ability to display how good he is in bed without actually having sex. Women are horny, but they are TIRED of bad sex.

How does she decide which of the attractive men who want to fuck her get to fuck her? Just chance that they are alone with her? Well then how do we get her alone? Is it ok to discuss it or should we just concentrate on looks?

Often the woman perceives her "attraction" or "choosing of one particular hot guy" as just some "magic" kind of thing. So do you believe in magic, like the universe causes her to feel those butterflies for this hot guy and not that hot guy because of Karma and past lives and universal space/time currents and flows of quantum mechanics? Do you believe only soul mates have sex? Or do you believe that something causes those feelings she gets inside?


About your comparison of PUA to hair transplants and teeth whitening:

I would go to bars (not clubs) anyway cuz I like alcohol, socializing, and live music. But going to a mall or a coffee shop is free. A home study course costs $300 to $500, not thousands. Bootcamps are a recent phenomena, and I'm unsure of their worth (I've heard from some peeps that it's just a chance to idol worship and watch some PUA). ASF is free. A CD with arousing, suggestive music on it used to costs $20, but is no longer available.

Hair replacement costs out the yin yang, and some women really dig on bald men. When I shave it clean, I have women approaching me to rub it out of the blue. It's a fetish, though, not some universal thing.
Just like some women love chest hair and some don't.


Again, looks are relative and individual specific.

Sure use teeth whiteners and have some fashion sense! Why not? I don't remember anyone on here suggesting that you shouldn't!




-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com