Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
The Hard Facts: Do Looks Matter?
Here is an interesting discussion that was sparked by a frustrated troll named PinkSmoke, which garnished some GREAT food for thought. I hope you enjoy it!
-SeductionMaestro
ok, I know you rightbrained pansies hate facts and logic so I'll keep it to a minimum. I've read some studies about mate selection done on speed daters. basically it's a statistical analysis of correlation of certain characteristics (age, weight, height, education, etc) and matches (proposals) made. for those of you that don't know how speed dating works, it's basically a bunch of guys talk to a bunch of girls for 3-4 minutes each and then later tell the organizers who they liked and if the persons they like also liked them back, they get each other's contact information. so this is not showing women pictures of men and asking them questions, this is women meeting men in a realistic environment and making real choices that have real consequences.
so here are the conclusions:
Can Anyone Be "The" One? Evidence on Mate Selection from Speed Dating (Michèle Belot, Marco Francesconi - October 2006 - http://ftp.iza.org/dp2377.pdf)
"Both women and men put comparable weights on observable physical attributes: women prefer men who are young and tall, while men are more attracted to women who are young and thin. Interestingly, age, height, and weight are correlated to education and occupation, while other physical traits that are not – such as eye colour and hair colour – are also not relevant to subjects’ dating decisions. Therefore, when proposing to a potential partner, female and male subjects only use partners’ physical attributes that are good predictors of socioeconomic status."
HurryDate: Mate preferences in action (Robert Kurzban, Jason Weeden - http://www.psych.upenn.edu/PLEEP/pdfs/2005%20Kurzban%20&%20Weeden%20EHB.pdf)
"HurryDate events provide strong evidence of the importance of generally agreed-upon mate values as opposed to mate values driven by assortative or other attribute-matching trends, and these generally agreed-upon mate values derive almost exclusively from observable attributes, such as physical attractiveness, BMI, height, age, and race. HurryDate participants are given three minutes in which to make their judgments, but they mostly could be made in three seconds. Other than the very broad and unsurprising result that women are more selective than men are, the centrally predictable fact from HurryDate events is that women’s desirability is dominated by their relative thinness, a finding consistent with data from personal ads. Such findings support both theoretical emphasis on men’s attention to physical attractiveness and lay intuitions that men care most deeply about women’s body size and shape. Our findings also indicate that, at least in the context of HurryDate events, women show similar physically driven preferences. While men at HurryDate events are strongly attracted to women who are thin, young, attractive, and of a similar race, women strongly prefer men who are physically attractive, tall, young, of medium build, and of a similar race. Women’s preferences are not strongly determined by a single trait, but, collectively, their preferences are driven by appearance."
"Many traits had surprisingly little effect on people’s desirability at HurryDate events, including education and income, previous marriages, having children, concordant desires for future children, religious compatibility, appetites with respect to casual sex, and having similar habits with regard to smoking and drinking."
"Heavier women said yes to a relatively high proportion of potential dates, as did men who were either heavy or very thin."
"Income played a role in men’s selectivity, although it did not affect their desirability: Although women showed no preference for higher income men, these men were more selective. When men and women increase their selectivity, they exclude less desirable people. The result is that more selective men choose and are matched with women who are, on average, thinner, younger, and more attractive, while more selective women end up choosing and being matched with men who are taller, younger, and more attractive. Consequently, desirable women (specifically women with low BMI) end up matched with higher income men, not because these women select higher income men, but because higher income men are more selective."
so, yes looks do matter for women as much as men, or even more for women as they are more selective than men.
-PinkSmoke
Speed Dating is about a girl going out and picking a specific type of guy from a line-up. It is not a microcosm- it is a closed experiment.
Keep thinking women care as much about looks as men based on a quarantined ecosystem if you want to. Hope it gets you somewhere.
I for one am glad I'm a man, cuz I know from experience that men don't need looks to have sex with 10s, but most of the time women do.
OK Yoko Ono got John Lennon, but I believe he was just trying to prove one of his "enlightened" points.
I'll give you a hint: my brother is male model attractive, and he used to get more girls than me. Now I'm balding, he's still super-fine, but I get him chicks nowadays. I even have to do stuff so they won't try switching to me. Go figure.
How am I different today? My looks? Nope. Did I get younger? Nope.
Irresistable confidence. An aura of animal magnetism. And most importantly...fun! The kind of fun girls drool for.
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
your individual experience means nothing. my experience is that guys need to look good to get laid, more so than girls because I know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly unlike unattractive guys. but my experience doesn't matter either, what matters is the hard data that proves that chicks want young, tall, good looking guys and that all other characteristics are subordinate.
and yes, you're selling seduction shit (seduction album as well as affiliate links to peddler-gurus) so since you obviously can't sell looks you're discounting them as unimportant.
-PinkSmoke
"your individual experience means nothing."
Yeah but look around KJ.
I'm not the only one.
"my experience is that guys need to look good to get laid, more so than girls because I know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly unlike unattractive guys."
I didn't say that they weren't getting laid. The question is, who are they getting laid by?
Sure, unattractive guys don't get laid as much. But for men, attractiveness is not synonomous with "good looks"
Howard Stern isn't unattractive, but he's sure as hell UGLY. Mich Jagger is sexy as hell, but he is also fucking UGLY as sin.
Sure you'll play the "celebrity card" on that example, but if I tell you about the bucktoothed guy down the street who's fucking a local model, you won't know who I'm talking about. But open your eyes and you'll see fat dudes with hotties all the time.
And having been in the music business for a while now, I can tell you that charisma generally comes BEFORE fame, not FROM fame.
No charisma, no fame.
"ut my experience doesn't matter either, what matters is the hard data that proves that chicks want young, tall, good looking guys and that all other characteristics are subordinate."
But your facts come from a microcosm called Speed Dating. It has very little to do with how people hook up in the real world.
In 5 minutes all a girl can tell is looks and style. And she went there to find her "type."
No chance of her being enlightened by what would actually fulfill her. No chance of her being seduced like she's always wanted to be by a man who isn't her brainwashed "type"... and it's
because of her focus, venue, and time restraints.
Also, what women say they want and what they actually respond to are very different things. I'm sure the 24 year old girl I hooked up with last weekend would have SAID that she preferred the type she blew off for me (a good looking guy MUCH closer to her age) if she had been questioned before the experience.
Women SAY they want to meet nice guys too. Is it true?
"nd yes, you're selling seduction shit (seduction album as well as affiliate links to peddler-gurus) so since you obviously can't sell looks you're discounting them as unimportant."
No, I'm not selling the album anymore. One of the artists got a deal and pulled three songs. And I haven't made any money off of those affiliate links to speak of.
But if you want to limit your belief system with microcosms, statistics from questionaires to women (who notoriously don't even know what they want anyway), and friggin' Speed Dating of all the ghey things in the world...I wish you good luck widdat!
The thought of a yopung, sweaty palmed male model ass kisser with no callouses on his hands stealing a prospect from ME, on the other hand? Laughable.
Guys, most of them don't give a shit if the girl is confident, or socially well adjusted, or even entertaining...as long as she's hot and has some brain cells guys want her. On the other hand, you can be Fabio and still turn off a girl in 30 seconds just by being LSE.
Like I said, glad I'm a man and not a woman.
We got pick-up, and all they got is the knife. For the most part.
-SeductionMaestro
>Yeah but look around KJ.
>I'm not the only one.
even if all the bragging shit on this board were true, you'd still be outnumbered 100 to 1 by guys who can't get laid because of their looks. and I've met many community guys and seen them work so I have a pretty good idea of how much of it is truth and how much is fiction in the lay reports.
>I didn't say that they weren't
>getting laid. The question is,
>who are they getting laid by?
by guys who are relatively more attractive than they are. it's easier for a girl to get laid than for a guy period... so it's not surprising that there are many more couples where the girl is relatively less attractive than the guy than vice versa. I know it seems to you that in many couples the girl is more attractive than the guy (that's because you're hardwired to notice girls' attractiveness) but the data is clear.
>Sure you'll play the "celebrity card"
>on that example, but if I tell you about
>the bucktoothed guy down the street
>who's fucking a local model, you
>won't know who I'm talking about.
you're right, I won't because I don't know many (if any) guys in that situation. if a physically unattractive guy gets hot girls he's either rich or has high status in some environment or both. this is my experience but I try not to use it as an argument because it's a subjective thing. that's why there is hard data about what women actually go for.
>But open your eyes and you'll
>see fat dudes with hotties all
>the time.
no, I've been paying attention for years and finding an attractive girl with an unattractive guy is very rare. if you look at 100 couples, a great majority will be broadly equal in attractiveness, some will have the guy who is hotter (relatively) than the girl and even fewer will have the girl who is hotter. but you can't process that - you can only process your own (probably atypical) experience and some special cases like "that one bucktoothed guy" or celebrities, forgetting the hundreds of guys in the neighborhood who can't get chicks because they are short, ugly, fat, old, whatever.
>Women SAY they want to meet
>nice guys too. Is it true?
these studies were not about what they said they like, these studies are about what they did. this was not an experiment nor it was a questionnaire, this was just data of what actually happened. I know you guys here hate any sort of controlled environment because it will debunk your bullshit theories and systems in a second.
you can't fool hundreds of millions of years of natural selection with some funny stories from a website.
so, what is the point of all this? simple, stop telling people looks don't matter. the verdict is in - looks and height and age (youth) do matter most so the first priority of any guy who wants to get more women is to look hotter and younger (as for height, tough shit).
-PinkSmoke
PinkSmoke wrote:
>your individual experience
>means nothing.
Means nothing to whom?
my experience
>is that guys need to look good
>to get laid, more so than
>girls because I know plenty of
>unattractive girls who are
>getting fucked regularly
>unlike unattractive guys.
Are you some sort of special case, or is that just because you're the one who's fucking them?
Anyway,
UGs do get fucked a lot, by guys who think they can't get better looking women.
Do you still contend that "guys need to look good more so than women, because you know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly"?????
Lol, what's your deal?
You're either a dude who just had a labotomy, or you're a really ugly girl.
Anyway,
but
>my experience doesn't matter
>either, what matters is the
>hard data that proves that
>chicks want young, tall, good
>looking guys and that all
>other characteristics are
>subordinate.
You are definately over qualifying speed dating's marketing strategies.
>and yes, you're selling
>seduction shit (seduction
>album as well as affiliate
>links to peddler-gurus) so
>since you obviously can't sell
>looks you're discounting them
>as unimportant.
Looks are important, but it's not the only thing that matters when it comes to women.
Women will sleep with a midget who has elephantitis if he pushes their buttons(I know, it turns my stomach too, but that's just the way it is).
Women are that way, because God made'em that way. Got a problem with it; Take it up with him.
Anyway,
As far as women being able to attract men, looks matter more to men, but still aren't the only thing that matters, at least not to guys who have relationships with women.
Once you start sleeping with a lot of women, you soon begin to realize that looks aren't the most important thing when it comes to a desirable mate, although they are important for attraction purposes.
Something else that you soon realize, or come to the conclusion of, is this, if I'm going to sleep with someone that I can't stand to be around for more than a few days at a time, then she's definately going to be good looking/good in bed, prefferably a combination of both.
There is more to the picture than meets the eye, if you had any real experience you'd know that attraction and compatibility are not the same thing, and speed dating is societies replacement for the bowling alley and the drive-in movie theater.
All of which are irrelevant to PU, although the contrast does make for great comedy material.
-Tinchun
HurryDates are nothing like everyday pickup, especially pickup in enviroments like campuses, bookstores, parties e.t.c
They may only be remotely similar to a situation when a doll at a disco/bar is courted by several guys at once, but even this is a remote similarity.
Not all mating activities are similar and relate to one another.
There is a scientific fact that the only statistically significant trait important to dolls when looking for husbands is the size of their bank acounts.
But everyday PU is nothing like a situation of a doll looking for a husband. Its nothing like a hurry date either.
Its a well known fact that good physicall looks increase the chance of a succesfull PU, but they are far from being the most important factor. Especially in the classical 7 hours scenario the guys social skills, communicativeness, ability to EV e.t.c are more important that looks alone.
-Ardashir
PinkSmoke wrote:
>my experience doesn't matter
>either, what matters is the
>hard data
I realise you're a troll and I shouldn't be feeding your desire for drama and attention, but this is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read in my life.
ALL THAT FUCKING MATTERS IS YOUR EXPERIENCE
Do you think when your time comes, you'll be lying on your death bed looking at an excel spreadsheet saying "Well, the hard data conclusively proves I've had a good life"? Or will you be looking back on your EXPERIENCES in order to make that judgement?
Does it matter what the average girl thinks of the average guy? Or does it matter what the girl you're talking to RIGHT NOW thinks of YOU?
0/10 for trolling, 10/10 for sheer stupidity.
-Lucha (ps, don't bother replying, I'm done with your stupid ass)
Despite this being a typical troll post, the studies are worthy of comment.
It is absolutely true that if *GIVEN NO OTHER VARIABLE* people will choose based on appearance.
I mean, obviously, if you line up 10 guys and ask a woman to choose one, she is going to pick the hottest guy. Duh.
Thats essentially what speed dating is. I have always thought (and would love to try taking my ugly ass to a speed dating event, if there were any in my area) that a pickup artist could get crazy results. Most guys are going to be boring in 3-4 minutes. A PUA can get in kino, C&F, run a routine/pattern on a chick, and BE DIFFERENT. Will he do better than the hot guy? Not necessarily. Can he negate the disadvantage of less-than-good-looks and do *JUST AS WELL* as the hot guy? Through PU tech, BL, peacocking, etc- Absolutely.
Looks play a tremendous role in ease-of-approach. Women (and men) are far more receptive to an approach from an attractive person than an ordinary or unattractive person. Thats why I keep harping that guys here should honestly rate their own attractiveness when posting FRs/LRs. Some guys think they are approaching a chick and "putting her under my spell" with "deep gazing" and other jedi mind tricks, when the fact of the matter is they are just an attractive man with the balls to approach a female, and could have gotten the same result just by going up to her and saying "Hi".
The flip side of that is if you DONT have looks, you need to run very indirect game, IMO. If you are an HB and an ugly guy approaches you with direct game you are going to blow him out in a heartbeat. You can get what he is offering from a lot better looking guys. So UGs (like me) do best when we come in below the radar. The ideal scenario should be that an ugly guy approaches HB indirectly, is cool, confident, and relaxed, develops rapport and builds comfort with HB, who starts to think "What an amazing guy", then escalates, induces good feelings, and closes the deal. You want to master the ability to approach hot women in such a way as not to make them think "This ugly dude is trying to pick me up", but rather, "This guy seems really nice/cool/interesting." Thats HARD, because women are FUCKING GOOD at knowing when a guy is trying to pick them up.
And as for "ugly guys dont get laid"- crap. Ugly guys who have no game get laid all the time. Usually by ugly girls. Or in return for playing the provider role. Or they just happen to get lucky and find an emotionally vulnerable hot chick.
Ugly guys with game are at least as successful as hot guys with no game.
Caveat: by Ugly Guy I am referring to guys who are simply not good looking. The 5's and 6's of the guy world. Im not talking seriously disfigured dudes.
-JetSetJim
at least I got someone to agree that looks matter..... you'd think I was claiming the Earth is flat
ok, now about having 'game'... there is no such thing as game. science has confirmed that chicks will choose guys based on opportunities, genetics and socioeconomic status. that's it, that's science. if you're looking to 'beat the system', you should be working on those three areas, namely approaching more chicks, looking as good as you can and not being a nobody (everything from unemployed stoner to running your own web design company - you're nobody unless you're important).
as for what is called 'game' in this community, it's laughable. half the stuff contradicts the other half. be high energy but talk slow. act silly but be alpha. be sexual but act aloof. convey your personality yet say this this and this. the truth is none of you really know what works and what doesn't, because it's practically impossible for a single guy to be able to accumulate and process a large enough sample to have a clear answer. you approach a hundred chicks, fuck 5 of them (yeah, right!) and you think you got some brilliant strategy down? ridiculous! maybe we'd know what works if we pooled all our experiences in a systematic way but there is so much business interests and lying in the community that you might as well be reading Maxim or hanging around in lockerrooms.
-PinkSmoke
The contradictory stuff is from different schools of thought, cuz there is more than one way to skin a cat. Or because they are not contradictions, but your limiting viewpoint assimilates it that way. In some cases it's even also that one of the contradicting viewpoints is totally false, after all we're on a public message board.
If you really believe what you say, then I guess you believe that a whiny, needy, shy, supplicant, low self esteem male model has the same chance to be with a woman as his confident, social, communicative, sexual, fun identical twin brother. If you want to take that kind of garbage with you through life then have fun. I really think you are just too dense to understand what "game" is, and you really don't understand why people go to Speed Dating conferences or the differences about how they think when they go to one as opposed to how they are thinking when they go to a bar, mall, coffee shop, etc.
If you're just here to troll because you have resigned yourself to the evolutionary fate of your unchangeable "league," then have fun with that. I guess there is no helping you, then.
-Seduction Maestro
hey pinksmoke
consider this
you come here hardly getting laid at all learn some techniques, go out and get laid heaps and your looks didnt change.
which is the case for alot of people here
now taking this into account it is hard for alot of people to then beleive looks are really important because they have proven for themselves they are not.
The real question isnt wether looks matter its wether you could change your looks enough to make a difference. The overall consensus from the shape of the world today is no you cant or every guy would have. Why are no guys getting plastic surgery, why is there not many guys getting jacked up in the gym, why arent guys wearing shoes to make them taller?
this leaves 2 possibilities. -Guys dont care that much what they are fucking as long as they get laid so no motivation to get better looking.(highly possible)
-other stuff which is easier to change gets you laid more so again not efficient to spend time and energy changing looks.
even the fact that guys dont wear make-up?
how does that fit into looks being really important, surely it would be silly not too if it made your more attractive and that was the most important thing in getting laid.
yet when it comes to gaining socail status every guy in the world is striving for it. Be it sport, music, job, even wow.
Conincadence?
maybe when you have high social status you get really high confidence?
which leads to easy success with women?
so yes looks matter and life will be harder for ugly guys but what are they gonna do; lie there like a bitch or jump da fuck up (to quote corey taylor)
it would be like trying to convince a guy in a wheelchair that having no legs sucks.
an ugly guy with game will get laid more than a ugly guy wihtout game
a good looking guy with game will get laid more than a good looking guy without game
therefore game=good.
looks=cant be changed significantly enough to even warrant thinking about
if you place value on looks you then have to place highest value on a good looking girl which is highly counter productive.
its like in the matrix when neo asks the oracle something and it tells him an answer which turns out to be incorrect and neo is like but you are supposed to know everyhing?
and the oracle is like i do thats why i told you that answer not because it was true but because i knew how it would make you act.
you need alternate realities in your head. Accept looks matter while also ignoring it.
or go and listen to the blueprint by tyler durden which is fucking incredible and best ever what is the matrix version of life i have ever heard and i could probably write an answer 10 times as long once i have finished listening to it
-Tasman
>you come here hardly getting laid at
>all learn some techniques, go out
>and get laid heaps and your looks
>didnt change.
>which is the case for alot of people
>here
heh, the reality is most people in the community never approached a woman in their life before coming here. then they got some 'techniques', approached hundreds of women and got to have sex with 2-3 of them. then they post about their conquest, (often overstating the girls' attractiveness) like they did something extraordinary. and that's just people who don't make shit up outright.
and it's not true that people here think looks don't matter. they say looks don't matter but you know you should see what they do, not listen to what they say. there is a lot of grooming and fashion advice, many people here go to the gym (at least 50%), there is talk about platform shoes that make you seem taller... a lot of advice from Mystery and Style and Tyler Durden has to do with appearance. shit, both Mystery and Style wear makeup and platform shoes and are obsessive about their clothes and appearance in general.
look, the data is clear: chicks are attracted primarily to looks and social status. now you can try to confuse them about your social status by acting confident or telling stories or whatnot (DHV) but as the data shows, it doesn't work that well because the female brain has that shit down pat after a million generations.
the male brain also figured stuff out during all that time. as you said:
>yet when it comes to gaining
>socail status every guy in the
>world is striving for it. Be it
>sport, music, job, even wow.
so yes, the best way to increase your chances with women is high social status, that's why we're wired to strive for it. not because you'll get confidence (or our brain would simply make us feel confident) but because chicks are also attracted to high social status (as the data shows). but the community insists that this confidence must come from nothing otherwise it's not 'real'. that's just idiotic.
look, what happens in the community is that a normal guy hits on hundreds of normal girls, gets to fuck a few of them and credits his 'game' for it. it's not game, it's just normal for a normal guy to fuck normal girls, it's how life works. you approach a chick, she sizes you up physically in one second, then it takes her anywhere from 3 seconds to 3 minutes to see where you are on the social totem pole and then her brain does the math. what you prattle about David Bowie or some girls fighting outside simply doesn't matter. the data proves it!
-PinkSmoke
Pink, you're a dumbass. And stubborn too. Tell you what, come sarging with me and I will walk up to 30 girls and just be cool and friendly. Then I will walk up to thirty girls and use pattern language, qualification, values elicitation, anchors, cold reading, frame stealing, and push and pull. Then you can see for yourself the difference.
Instead of assuming that everyone is a nerd and that this is just a numbers game, why don't you stop being a KJ?
If you weren't a KJ, you could go out and do this exact experiment for yourself and see what I am talking about.
Unless you are a total creep and it doesn't matter what you do cuz you're subcommunication sux, I can guarantee that you will do 500% better when you use the skills.
-Seduction Maestro
ok, I'm a dumbas KJ but you're a lying piece of shit. you lied that there are four chicks to every guy in Atlanta and you were lying about your success for commercial purposes. what if you're lying about this too? if you turn out to be a douchebag who can't pull, will you reimburse my travel expenses? what if you're lying about that too?
you're the perfect representative of the seduction community, peddling crap, lying your ass off and insulting people who disagree with you.
-PinkSmoke
How was I lying about my success, pray tell?
Every field report I've posted is true, every occurence I've talked about with women.
And I wasn't lying about the ratio in Atlanta, I was repeating information that had been told to me from several different independent sources. That's being misinformed, not lying, if you know the english language and understand basic communication.
See, only nerds check that kind of information meticulously like you did.
I don't really care that much what the ratio of men to women in Atlanta is. All I know is that when I go out in Buckhead, there are alot more women than men, and what people have told me. Sorry I didn't check my facts like a nerdy historian when talking about...lol...an easy, casual thing like picking up girls.
And what are these commercial reasons? Let me repeat, my blog has not sold a single product through affiliate links. I am sorry that it offends you that I am displaying the methods which I actually recommend and know to work. I figured if anyone actually buys one, I might as well make the 50 cents off of it. I could display them without an affiliate link, I guess, but that would just be stupid.
And, again, Songs of Seduction has not been on the market for 5 months. Can't make money off of something that isn't for sale, you know!
What you're basically saying is that you have the same chance with a woman no matter if you talk about trigonometry or have fun flirting with her, because she's either going to jump on you for your good looks or not, no matter what you say or what "vibe" you project. If you really believe that, you are either incapable of learning from experiences in the real world or you're locked in a bubble somewhere with no contact to the outside world.
Now...may evolution have it's way with you, hardhead.
Or go get plastic surgery, then maybe you'll see the light when you find that your lays have not increased from it.
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
"so yes, the best way to increase your chances with women is high social status, that's why we're wired to strive for it. not because you'll get confidence (or our brain would simply make us feel confident) but because chicks are also attracted to high social status (as the data shows). but the community insists that this confidence must come from nothing otherwise it's not 'real'. that's just idiotic"
consider this
long ago you lived in a tribe and needed your tribe to like you. If your tribe didnt like you and kicked you out you died. Also if alpha male decided to bash you over the head with a rock and kill you he could.
Now think about approach anxiety. Surely it must be there for a reason or it would not have survived evolution.
Conclusion your brain is very smart and is always assessing your value in a situation and when it is high it gives you confidence to game hardout and be successful and when your value is low it makes you act safe. If you gamed hard out with low value in caveman days you would risk death or being kicked out of tribe so death.
Knowing this the secret is to be in the confident state as much as possible which is obviously going against how your brain is wired so takes alot of effort.
now what is a really counterproductive belief to being confident?
im not good looking enough so i cant be successful with women...
see the problem here
its like the belief whatever you do in life is pointless because in 100 years you will be dead. Maybe true but completely useless. Even if 5 million studies found life to be a waste of time no-one would change their life because of it.
look
Im pretty confident the main thing you get from game is the confidence to approach alot of women which goes against your brains natural logic. And yes i beleave its just a numbers game.
But its a two part numbers game. You should also learn the importance of value and how to structure your life to increase your value over time.
or sit at home think looks are the most important thing and they cant be changed so if your ugly its all over, give up and play wow
your choice...
or if you want a much more detailed 20 hour explanation of this listen to the blueprint.
-Tasman
Tasman,
If it were just a number's game, and it were just about confidence and looks, then walking up to a woman and talking about cleaning latrines or monster trucks would be just as effective as walking up to her and flirting, or being cocky and funny, or complimenting her, or cold reading her.
While Pink is maybe dense enough to believe that, I don't think that you are.
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
well yeah i did make an assumption
that every approach you learn and improve
and by that reasoning it is a numbers game.
but yeah ignored the stupid factor im sure theres somebody in the world who gets worse with every approach
...
rapists...
apparantly that polish guy who kept his daughter in his basement and kept raping her defence goes like this
i was born to rape and im actually a really good amazing person who has managed to contain this for so much of my life when an ordinary person could not have.
so therefore im a good person.
im sure theres even some idiot out there who thinks this does make him a good person.
meh im going to band practise
-Tasman
>effective as walking up to her
>and flirting, or being cocky
>and funny, or complimenting her,
>or cold reading her.
look, talking about monster trucks or your hemorrhoids is an extreme that of course will hurt your chances. that's not lack of game, that's being an idiot.
but if you're a normal guy who looks good and has money and is somebody and your competition is some balding, fat guy with 'game' (what you call game is basically a bunch of conversational gimmicks learned from a website or a book), in that case the good looking normal guy will get the girl most of the time.
does having 'game' hurt you? no, not really (unless it's some creepy miscalibrated routine)... what does hurt you is believing looks don't matter and neglecting to improve yourself in that regard. what hurts you is believing money and status don't matter and nor improving yourself in those areas. what hurts you is spending hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on going out to clubs, seminars, DVDs, fucking seduction songs... when maybe all you needed was a hair transplant, teeth whitening, some nice clothes or a diet.
-PinkSmoke
>look, talking about monster trucks or your >hemorrhoids is an extreme that of course >will hurt your chances. that's not lack of >game, that's being an idiot.
yeah, and 99.9% of men are idiots when it comes to picking up women.
>but if you're a normal guy who looks good >and has money and is somebody and your >competition is some balding, fat guy >with 'game' (what you call game is >basically a bunch of conversational >gimmicks learned from a website or a >book), in that case the good looking >normal guy will get the girl most of the >time.
I disagree, because I'm balding and middle class and that has not been my experience.
PLEASE sport your Beemer or your Rolex while you're in competition with me, cuz it will make it even easier.
Granted, I'm tall and decent looking and have a bit of fashion sense. But what gives me the leg up is that I'm 200% more confident than 99.9% of men, much less needy than 99.9% of men, and I know how to fascinate women, recreate a sense of connection, and get them horny with my words and actions.
>does having 'game' hurt you? no, not >really (unless it's some creepy >miscalibrated routine)... what does hurt >you is believing looks don't matter and >neglecting to improve yourself in that >regard.
Who said anything about neglecting it? It's just that it's not as important as you seem to be making it out to be, based on facts from an isolated microcosmic phenomena called "Speed Dating."
> what hurts you is believing money and >status don't matter and nor improving >yourself in those areas.
It's not always possible to improve those things, and they aren't as important to "good girls" (the kind that won't even let you buy them a drink because they value love and connections more than money or fame).
For golddiggers, sure money is a PRIME factor. For freaks social status is of sometimes of prime importance too.
>what hurts you is spending hundreds of >hours and thousands of dollars on going >out to clubs, seminars, DVDs, fucking >seduction songs... when maybe all you >needed was a hair transplant, teeth >whitening, some nice clothes or a diet.
You really think that just that stuff alone will up you from 0 lays to one lay a month or more with beautiful women like PUA skills can?
Don't you realize that some men have approach anxiety and have NEVER approached a woman cold? Don't you realize that certain coaches have excercizes which overcome this? Don't your realize that many, many men have escalation anxiety, and the only time they've ever been laid is when they happened upon a really aggressive woman? Don't you realize that some of the routines are geared towards making people comfortable and OK with going in for a kiss or using kino?
Do you really think it's just as effective for a good looking guy to walk up to a stranger and ask her out or for a phone number (like I have seen SOOO many AFCs do) as it is to walk up to her, make her feel comfortable and intrigued by what you say, and then move to the next step?
I think the thing that you might be missing, besides the fact that women use more than just LOOKS to determine what's attractive to them in the real world (as opposed to when they're just looking at photos or having/viewing short interview style encounters), is that a woman cannot possibly fuck all of the guys she finds attractive...that women find many more men attractive than you would believe...and that there are societal consequences to fucking too many of the men she finds attractive. OR for fucking a man she just wants a ONS from and not a relationship, or vice versa. Also, you underestimate how positively BAD most men are in bed, and underestimate a man's ability to display how good he is in bed without actually having sex. Women are horny, but they are TIRED of bad sex.
How does she decide which of the attractive men who want to fuck her get to fuck her? Just chance that they are alone with her? Well then how do we get her alone? Is it ok to discuss it or should we just concentrate on looks?
Often the woman perceives her "attraction" or "choosing of one particular hot guy" as just some "magic" kind of thing. So do you believe in magic, like the universe causes her to feel those butterflies for this hot guy and not that hot guy because of Karma and past lives and universal space/time currents and flows of quantum mechanics? Do you believe only soul mates have sex? Or do you believe that something causes those feelings she gets inside?
About your comparison of PUA to hair transplants and teeth whitening:
I would go to bars (not clubs) anyway cuz I like alcohol, socializing, and live music. But going to a mall or a coffee shop is free. A home study course costs $300 to $500, not thousands. Bootcamps are a recent phenomena, and I'm unsure of their worth (I've heard from some peeps that it's just a chance to idol worship and watch some PUA). ASF is free. A CD with arousing, suggestive music on it used to costs $20, but is no longer available.
Hair replacement costs out the yin yang, and some women really dig on bald men. When I shave it clean, I have women approaching me to rub it out of the blue. It's a fetish, though, not some universal thing.
Just like some women love chest hair and some don't.
Again, looks are relative and individual specific.
Sure use teeth whiteners and have some fashion sense! Why not? I don't remember anyone on here suggesting that you shouldn't!
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
-SeductionMaestro
ok, I know you rightbrained pansies hate facts and logic so I'll keep it to a minimum. I've read some studies about mate selection done on speed daters. basically it's a statistical analysis of correlation of certain characteristics (age, weight, height, education, etc) and matches (proposals) made. for those of you that don't know how speed dating works, it's basically a bunch of guys talk to a bunch of girls for 3-4 minutes each and then later tell the organizers who they liked and if the persons they like also liked them back, they get each other's contact information. so this is not showing women pictures of men and asking them questions, this is women meeting men in a realistic environment and making real choices that have real consequences.
so here are the conclusions:
Can Anyone Be "The" One? Evidence on Mate Selection from Speed Dating (Michèle Belot, Marco Francesconi - October 2006 - http://ftp.iza.org/dp2377.pdf)
"Both women and men put comparable weights on observable physical attributes: women prefer men who are young and tall, while men are more attracted to women who are young and thin. Interestingly, age, height, and weight are correlated to education and occupation, while other physical traits that are not – such as eye colour and hair colour – are also not relevant to subjects’ dating decisions. Therefore, when proposing to a potential partner, female and male subjects only use partners’ physical attributes that are good predictors of socioeconomic status."
HurryDate: Mate preferences in action (Robert Kurzban, Jason Weeden - http://www.psych.upenn.edu/PLEEP/pdfs/2005%20Kurzban%20&%20Weeden%20EHB.pdf)
"HurryDate events provide strong evidence of the importance of generally agreed-upon mate values as opposed to mate values driven by assortative or other attribute-matching trends, and these generally agreed-upon mate values derive almost exclusively from observable attributes, such as physical attractiveness, BMI, height, age, and race. HurryDate participants are given three minutes in which to make their judgments, but they mostly could be made in three seconds. Other than the very broad and unsurprising result that women are more selective than men are, the centrally predictable fact from HurryDate events is that women’s desirability is dominated by their relative thinness, a finding consistent with data from personal ads. Such findings support both theoretical emphasis on men’s attention to physical attractiveness and lay intuitions that men care most deeply about women’s body size and shape. Our findings also indicate that, at least in the context of HurryDate events, women show similar physically driven preferences. While men at HurryDate events are strongly attracted to women who are thin, young, attractive, and of a similar race, women strongly prefer men who are physically attractive, tall, young, of medium build, and of a similar race. Women’s preferences are not strongly determined by a single trait, but, collectively, their preferences are driven by appearance."
"Many traits had surprisingly little effect on people’s desirability at HurryDate events, including education and income, previous marriages, having children, concordant desires for future children, religious compatibility, appetites with respect to casual sex, and having similar habits with regard to smoking and drinking."
"Heavier women said yes to a relatively high proportion of potential dates, as did men who were either heavy or very thin."
"Income played a role in men’s selectivity, although it did not affect their desirability: Although women showed no preference for higher income men, these men were more selective. When men and women increase their selectivity, they exclude less desirable people. The result is that more selective men choose and are matched with women who are, on average, thinner, younger, and more attractive, while more selective women end up choosing and being matched with men who are taller, younger, and more attractive. Consequently, desirable women (specifically women with low BMI) end up matched with higher income men, not because these women select higher income men, but because higher income men are more selective."
so, yes looks do matter for women as much as men, or even more for women as they are more selective than men.
-PinkSmoke
Speed Dating is about a girl going out and picking a specific type of guy from a line-up. It is not a microcosm- it is a closed experiment.
Keep thinking women care as much about looks as men based on a quarantined ecosystem if you want to. Hope it gets you somewhere.
I for one am glad I'm a man, cuz I know from experience that men don't need looks to have sex with 10s, but most of the time women do.
OK Yoko Ono got John Lennon, but I believe he was just trying to prove one of his "enlightened" points.
I'll give you a hint: my brother is male model attractive, and he used to get more girls than me. Now I'm balding, he's still super-fine, but I get him chicks nowadays. I even have to do stuff so they won't try switching to me. Go figure.
How am I different today? My looks? Nope. Did I get younger? Nope.
Irresistable confidence. An aura of animal magnetism. And most importantly...fun! The kind of fun girls drool for.
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
your individual experience means nothing. my experience is that guys need to look good to get laid, more so than girls because I know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly unlike unattractive guys. but my experience doesn't matter either, what matters is the hard data that proves that chicks want young, tall, good looking guys and that all other characteristics are subordinate.
and yes, you're selling seduction shit (seduction album as well as affiliate links to peddler-gurus) so since you obviously can't sell looks you're discounting them as unimportant.
-PinkSmoke
"your individual experience means nothing."
Yeah but look around KJ.
I'm not the only one.
"my experience is that guys need to look good to get laid, more so than girls because I know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly unlike unattractive guys."
I didn't say that they weren't getting laid. The question is, who are they getting laid by?
Sure, unattractive guys don't get laid as much. But for men, attractiveness is not synonomous with "good looks"
Howard Stern isn't unattractive, but he's sure as hell UGLY. Mich Jagger is sexy as hell, but he is also fucking UGLY as sin.
Sure you'll play the "celebrity card" on that example, but if I tell you about the bucktoothed guy down the street who's fucking a local model, you won't know who I'm talking about. But open your eyes and you'll see fat dudes with hotties all the time.
And having been in the music business for a while now, I can tell you that charisma generally comes BEFORE fame, not FROM fame.
No charisma, no fame.
"ut my experience doesn't matter either, what matters is the hard data that proves that chicks want young, tall, good looking guys and that all other characteristics are subordinate."
But your facts come from a microcosm called Speed Dating. It has very little to do with how people hook up in the real world.
In 5 minutes all a girl can tell is looks and style. And she went there to find her "type."
No chance of her being enlightened by what would actually fulfill her. No chance of her being seduced like she's always wanted to be by a man who isn't her brainwashed "type"... and it's
because of her focus, venue, and time restraints.
Also, what women say they want and what they actually respond to are very different things. I'm sure the 24 year old girl I hooked up with last weekend would have SAID that she preferred the type she blew off for me (a good looking guy MUCH closer to her age) if she had been questioned before the experience.
Women SAY they want to meet nice guys too. Is it true?
"nd yes, you're selling seduction shit (seduction album as well as affiliate links to peddler-gurus) so since you obviously can't sell looks you're discounting them as unimportant."
No, I'm not selling the album anymore. One of the artists got a deal and pulled three songs. And I haven't made any money off of those affiliate links to speak of.
But if you want to limit your belief system with microcosms, statistics from questionaires to women (who notoriously don't even know what they want anyway), and friggin' Speed Dating of all the ghey things in the world...I wish you good luck widdat!
The thought of a yopung, sweaty palmed male model ass kisser with no callouses on his hands stealing a prospect from ME, on the other hand? Laughable.
Guys, most of them don't give a shit if the girl is confident, or socially well adjusted, or even entertaining...as long as she's hot and has some brain cells guys want her. On the other hand, you can be Fabio and still turn off a girl in 30 seconds just by being LSE.
Like I said, glad I'm a man and not a woman.
We got pick-up, and all they got is the knife. For the most part.
-SeductionMaestro
>Yeah but look around KJ.
>I'm not the only one.
even if all the bragging shit on this board were true, you'd still be outnumbered 100 to 1 by guys who can't get laid because of their looks. and I've met many community guys and seen them work so I have a pretty good idea of how much of it is truth and how much is fiction in the lay reports.
>I didn't say that they weren't
>getting laid. The question is,
>who are they getting laid by?
by guys who are relatively more attractive than they are. it's easier for a girl to get laid than for a guy period... so it's not surprising that there are many more couples where the girl is relatively less attractive than the guy than vice versa. I know it seems to you that in many couples the girl is more attractive than the guy (that's because you're hardwired to notice girls' attractiveness) but the data is clear.
>Sure you'll play the "celebrity card"
>on that example, but if I tell you about
>the bucktoothed guy down the street
>who's fucking a local model, you
>won't know who I'm talking about.
you're right, I won't because I don't know many (if any) guys in that situation. if a physically unattractive guy gets hot girls he's either rich or has high status in some environment or both. this is my experience but I try not to use it as an argument because it's a subjective thing. that's why there is hard data about what women actually go for.
>But open your eyes and you'll
>see fat dudes with hotties all
>the time.
no, I've been paying attention for years and finding an attractive girl with an unattractive guy is very rare. if you look at 100 couples, a great majority will be broadly equal in attractiveness, some will have the guy who is hotter (relatively) than the girl and even fewer will have the girl who is hotter. but you can't process that - you can only process your own (probably atypical) experience and some special cases like "that one bucktoothed guy" or celebrities, forgetting the hundreds of guys in the neighborhood who can't get chicks because they are short, ugly, fat, old, whatever.
>Women SAY they want to meet
>nice guys too. Is it true?
these studies were not about what they said they like, these studies are about what they did. this was not an experiment nor it was a questionnaire, this was just data of what actually happened. I know you guys here hate any sort of controlled environment because it will debunk your bullshit theories and systems in a second.
you can't fool hundreds of millions of years of natural selection with some funny stories from a website.
so, what is the point of all this? simple, stop telling people looks don't matter. the verdict is in - looks and height and age (youth) do matter most so the first priority of any guy who wants to get more women is to look hotter and younger (as for height, tough shit).
-PinkSmoke
PinkSmoke wrote:
>your individual experience
>means nothing.
Means nothing to whom?
my experience
>is that guys need to look good
>to get laid, more so than
>girls because I know plenty of
>unattractive girls who are
>getting fucked regularly
>unlike unattractive guys.
Are you some sort of special case, or is that just because you're the one who's fucking them?
Anyway,
UGs do get fucked a lot, by guys who think they can't get better looking women.
Do you still contend that "guys need to look good more so than women, because you know plenty of unattractive girls who are getting fucked regularly"?????
Lol, what's your deal?
You're either a dude who just had a labotomy, or you're a really ugly girl.
Anyway,
but
>my experience doesn't matter
>either, what matters is the
>hard data that proves that
>chicks want young, tall, good
>looking guys and that all
>other characteristics are
>subordinate.
You are definately over qualifying speed dating's marketing strategies.
>and yes, you're selling
>seduction shit (seduction
>album as well as affiliate
>links to peddler-gurus) so
>since you obviously can't sell
>looks you're discounting them
>as unimportant.
Looks are important, but it's not the only thing that matters when it comes to women.
Women will sleep with a midget who has elephantitis if he pushes their buttons(I know, it turns my stomach too, but that's just the way it is).
Women are that way, because God made'em that way. Got a problem with it; Take it up with him.
Anyway,
As far as women being able to attract men, looks matter more to men, but still aren't the only thing that matters, at least not to guys who have relationships with women.
Once you start sleeping with a lot of women, you soon begin to realize that looks aren't the most important thing when it comes to a desirable mate, although they are important for attraction purposes.
Something else that you soon realize, or come to the conclusion of, is this, if I'm going to sleep with someone that I can't stand to be around for more than a few days at a time, then she's definately going to be good looking/good in bed, prefferably a combination of both.
There is more to the picture than meets the eye, if you had any real experience you'd know that attraction and compatibility are not the same thing, and speed dating is societies replacement for the bowling alley and the drive-in movie theater.
All of which are irrelevant to PU, although the contrast does make for great comedy material.
-Tinchun
HurryDates are nothing like everyday pickup, especially pickup in enviroments like campuses, bookstores, parties e.t.c
They may only be remotely similar to a situation when a doll at a disco/bar is courted by several guys at once, but even this is a remote similarity.
Not all mating activities are similar and relate to one another.
There is a scientific fact that the only statistically significant trait important to dolls when looking for husbands is the size of their bank acounts.
But everyday PU is nothing like a situation of a doll looking for a husband. Its nothing like a hurry date either.
Its a well known fact that good physicall looks increase the chance of a succesfull PU, but they are far from being the most important factor. Especially in the classical 7 hours scenario the guys social skills, communicativeness, ability to EV e.t.c are more important that looks alone.
-Ardashir
PinkSmoke wrote:
>my experience doesn't matter
>either, what matters is the
>hard data
I realise you're a troll and I shouldn't be feeding your desire for drama and attention, but this is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read in my life.
ALL THAT FUCKING MATTERS IS YOUR EXPERIENCE
Do you think when your time comes, you'll be lying on your death bed looking at an excel spreadsheet saying "Well, the hard data conclusively proves I've had a good life"? Or will you be looking back on your EXPERIENCES in order to make that judgement?
Does it matter what the average girl thinks of the average guy? Or does it matter what the girl you're talking to RIGHT NOW thinks of YOU?
0/10 for trolling, 10/10 for sheer stupidity.
-Lucha (ps, don't bother replying, I'm done with your stupid ass)
Despite this being a typical troll post, the studies are worthy of comment.
It is absolutely true that if *GIVEN NO OTHER VARIABLE* people will choose based on appearance.
I mean, obviously, if you line up 10 guys and ask a woman to choose one, she is going to pick the hottest guy. Duh.
Thats essentially what speed dating is. I have always thought (and would love to try taking my ugly ass to a speed dating event, if there were any in my area) that a pickup artist could get crazy results. Most guys are going to be boring in 3-4 minutes. A PUA can get in kino, C&F, run a routine/pattern on a chick, and BE DIFFERENT. Will he do better than the hot guy? Not necessarily. Can he negate the disadvantage of less-than-good-looks and do *JUST AS WELL* as the hot guy? Through PU tech, BL, peacocking, etc- Absolutely.
Looks play a tremendous role in ease-of-approach. Women (and men) are far more receptive to an approach from an attractive person than an ordinary or unattractive person. Thats why I keep harping that guys here should honestly rate their own attractiveness when posting FRs/LRs. Some guys think they are approaching a chick and "putting her under my spell" with "deep gazing" and other jedi mind tricks, when the fact of the matter is they are just an attractive man with the balls to approach a female, and could have gotten the same result just by going up to her and saying "Hi".
The flip side of that is if you DONT have looks, you need to run very indirect game, IMO. If you are an HB and an ugly guy approaches you with direct game you are going to blow him out in a heartbeat. You can get what he is offering from a lot better looking guys. So UGs (like me) do best when we come in below the radar. The ideal scenario should be that an ugly guy approaches HB indirectly, is cool, confident, and relaxed, develops rapport and builds comfort with HB, who starts to think "What an amazing guy", then escalates, induces good feelings, and closes the deal. You want to master the ability to approach hot women in such a way as not to make them think "This ugly dude is trying to pick me up", but rather, "This guy seems really nice/cool/interesting." Thats HARD, because women are FUCKING GOOD at knowing when a guy is trying to pick them up.
And as for "ugly guys dont get laid"- crap. Ugly guys who have no game get laid all the time. Usually by ugly girls. Or in return for playing the provider role. Or they just happen to get lucky and find an emotionally vulnerable hot chick.
Ugly guys with game are at least as successful as hot guys with no game.
Caveat: by Ugly Guy I am referring to guys who are simply not good looking. The 5's and 6's of the guy world. Im not talking seriously disfigured dudes.
-JetSetJim
at least I got someone to agree that looks matter..... you'd think I was claiming the Earth is flat
ok, now about having 'game'... there is no such thing as game. science has confirmed that chicks will choose guys based on opportunities, genetics and socioeconomic status. that's it, that's science. if you're looking to 'beat the system', you should be working on those three areas, namely approaching more chicks, looking as good as you can and not being a nobody (everything from unemployed stoner to running your own web design company - you're nobody unless you're important).
as for what is called 'game' in this community, it's laughable. half the stuff contradicts the other half. be high energy but talk slow. act silly but be alpha. be sexual but act aloof. convey your personality yet say this this and this. the truth is none of you really know what works and what doesn't, because it's practically impossible for a single guy to be able to accumulate and process a large enough sample to have a clear answer. you approach a hundred chicks, fuck 5 of them (yeah, right!) and you think you got some brilliant strategy down? ridiculous! maybe we'd know what works if we pooled all our experiences in a systematic way but there is so much business interests and lying in the community that you might as well be reading Maxim or hanging around in lockerrooms.
-PinkSmoke
The contradictory stuff is from different schools of thought, cuz there is more than one way to skin a cat. Or because they are not contradictions, but your limiting viewpoint assimilates it that way. In some cases it's even also that one of the contradicting viewpoints is totally false, after all we're on a public message board.
If you really believe what you say, then I guess you believe that a whiny, needy, shy, supplicant, low self esteem male model has the same chance to be with a woman as his confident, social, communicative, sexual, fun identical twin brother. If you want to take that kind of garbage with you through life then have fun. I really think you are just too dense to understand what "game" is, and you really don't understand why people go to Speed Dating conferences or the differences about how they think when they go to one as opposed to how they are thinking when they go to a bar, mall, coffee shop, etc.
If you're just here to troll because you have resigned yourself to the evolutionary fate of your unchangeable "league," then have fun with that. I guess there is no helping you, then.
-Seduction Maestro
hey pinksmoke
consider this
you come here hardly getting laid at all learn some techniques, go out and get laid heaps and your looks didnt change.
which is the case for alot of people here
now taking this into account it is hard for alot of people to then beleive looks are really important because they have proven for themselves they are not.
The real question isnt wether looks matter its wether you could change your looks enough to make a difference. The overall consensus from the shape of the world today is no you cant or every guy would have. Why are no guys getting plastic surgery, why is there not many guys getting jacked up in the gym, why arent guys wearing shoes to make them taller?
this leaves 2 possibilities. -Guys dont care that much what they are fucking as long as they get laid so no motivation to get better looking.(highly possible)
-other stuff which is easier to change gets you laid more so again not efficient to spend time and energy changing looks.
even the fact that guys dont wear make-up?
how does that fit into looks being really important, surely it would be silly not too if it made your more attractive and that was the most important thing in getting laid.
yet when it comes to gaining socail status every guy in the world is striving for it. Be it sport, music, job, even wow.
Conincadence?
maybe when you have high social status you get really high confidence?
which leads to easy success with women?
so yes looks matter and life will be harder for ugly guys but what are they gonna do; lie there like a bitch or jump da fuck up (to quote corey taylor)
it would be like trying to convince a guy in a wheelchair that having no legs sucks.
an ugly guy with game will get laid more than a ugly guy wihtout game
a good looking guy with game will get laid more than a good looking guy without game
therefore game=good.
looks=cant be changed significantly enough to even warrant thinking about
if you place value on looks you then have to place highest value on a good looking girl which is highly counter productive.
its like in the matrix when neo asks the oracle something and it tells him an answer which turns out to be incorrect and neo is like but you are supposed to know everyhing?
and the oracle is like i do thats why i told you that answer not because it was true but because i knew how it would make you act.
you need alternate realities in your head. Accept looks matter while also ignoring it.
or go and listen to the blueprint by tyler durden which is fucking incredible and best ever what is the matrix version of life i have ever heard and i could probably write an answer 10 times as long once i have finished listening to it
-Tasman
>you come here hardly getting laid at
>all learn some techniques, go out
>and get laid heaps and your looks
>didnt change.
>which is the case for alot of people
>here
heh, the reality is most people in the community never approached a woman in their life before coming here. then they got some 'techniques', approached hundreds of women and got to have sex with 2-3 of them. then they post about their conquest, (often overstating the girls' attractiveness) like they did something extraordinary. and that's just people who don't make shit up outright.
and it's not true that people here think looks don't matter. they say looks don't matter but you know you should see what they do, not listen to what they say. there is a lot of grooming and fashion advice, many people here go to the gym (at least 50%), there is talk about platform shoes that make you seem taller... a lot of advice from Mystery and Style and Tyler Durden has to do with appearance. shit, both Mystery and Style wear makeup and platform shoes and are obsessive about their clothes and appearance in general.
look, the data is clear: chicks are attracted primarily to looks and social status. now you can try to confuse them about your social status by acting confident or telling stories or whatnot (DHV) but as the data shows, it doesn't work that well because the female brain has that shit down pat after a million generations.
the male brain also figured stuff out during all that time. as you said:
>yet when it comes to gaining
>socail status every guy in the
>world is striving for it. Be it
>sport, music, job, even wow.
so yes, the best way to increase your chances with women is high social status, that's why we're wired to strive for it. not because you'll get confidence (or our brain would simply make us feel confident) but because chicks are also attracted to high social status (as the data shows). but the community insists that this confidence must come from nothing otherwise it's not 'real'. that's just idiotic.
look, what happens in the community is that a normal guy hits on hundreds of normal girls, gets to fuck a few of them and credits his 'game' for it. it's not game, it's just normal for a normal guy to fuck normal girls, it's how life works. you approach a chick, she sizes you up physically in one second, then it takes her anywhere from 3 seconds to 3 minutes to see where you are on the social totem pole and then her brain does the math. what you prattle about David Bowie or some girls fighting outside simply doesn't matter. the data proves it!
-PinkSmoke
Pink, you're a dumbass. And stubborn too. Tell you what, come sarging with me and I will walk up to 30 girls and just be cool and friendly. Then I will walk up to thirty girls and use pattern language, qualification, values elicitation, anchors, cold reading, frame stealing, and push and pull. Then you can see for yourself the difference.
Instead of assuming that everyone is a nerd and that this is just a numbers game, why don't you stop being a KJ?
If you weren't a KJ, you could go out and do this exact experiment for yourself and see what I am talking about.
Unless you are a total creep and it doesn't matter what you do cuz you're subcommunication sux, I can guarantee that you will do 500% better when you use the skills.
-Seduction Maestro
ok, I'm a dumbas KJ but you're a lying piece of shit. you lied that there are four chicks to every guy in Atlanta and you were lying about your success for commercial purposes. what if you're lying about this too? if you turn out to be a douchebag who can't pull, will you reimburse my travel expenses? what if you're lying about that too?
you're the perfect representative of the seduction community, peddling crap, lying your ass off and insulting people who disagree with you.
-PinkSmoke
How was I lying about my success, pray tell?
Every field report I've posted is true, every occurence I've talked about with women.
And I wasn't lying about the ratio in Atlanta, I was repeating information that had been told to me from several different independent sources. That's being misinformed, not lying, if you know the english language and understand basic communication.
See, only nerds check that kind of information meticulously like you did.
I don't really care that much what the ratio of men to women in Atlanta is. All I know is that when I go out in Buckhead, there are alot more women than men, and what people have told me. Sorry I didn't check my facts like a nerdy historian when talking about...lol...an easy, casual thing like picking up girls.
And what are these commercial reasons? Let me repeat, my blog has not sold a single product through affiliate links. I am sorry that it offends you that I am displaying the methods which I actually recommend and know to work. I figured if anyone actually buys one, I might as well make the 50 cents off of it. I could display them without an affiliate link, I guess, but that would just be stupid.
And, again, Songs of Seduction has not been on the market for 5 months. Can't make money off of something that isn't for sale, you know!
What you're basically saying is that you have the same chance with a woman no matter if you talk about trigonometry or have fun flirting with her, because she's either going to jump on you for your good looks or not, no matter what you say or what "vibe" you project. If you really believe that, you are either incapable of learning from experiences in the real world or you're locked in a bubble somewhere with no contact to the outside world.
Now...may evolution have it's way with you, hardhead.
Or go get plastic surgery, then maybe you'll see the light when you find that your lays have not increased from it.
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
"so yes, the best way to increase your chances with women is high social status, that's why we're wired to strive for it. not because you'll get confidence (or our brain would simply make us feel confident) but because chicks are also attracted to high social status (as the data shows). but the community insists that this confidence must come from nothing otherwise it's not 'real'. that's just idiotic"
consider this
long ago you lived in a tribe and needed your tribe to like you. If your tribe didnt like you and kicked you out you died. Also if alpha male decided to bash you over the head with a rock and kill you he could.
Now think about approach anxiety. Surely it must be there for a reason or it would not have survived evolution.
Conclusion your brain is very smart and is always assessing your value in a situation and when it is high it gives you confidence to game hardout and be successful and when your value is low it makes you act safe. If you gamed hard out with low value in caveman days you would risk death or being kicked out of tribe so death.
Knowing this the secret is to be in the confident state as much as possible which is obviously going against how your brain is wired so takes alot of effort.
now what is a really counterproductive belief to being confident?
im not good looking enough so i cant be successful with women...
see the problem here
its like the belief whatever you do in life is pointless because in 100 years you will be dead. Maybe true but completely useless. Even if 5 million studies found life to be a waste of time no-one would change their life because of it.
look
Im pretty confident the main thing you get from game is the confidence to approach alot of women which goes against your brains natural logic. And yes i beleave its just a numbers game.
But its a two part numbers game. You should also learn the importance of value and how to structure your life to increase your value over time.
or sit at home think looks are the most important thing and they cant be changed so if your ugly its all over, give up and play wow
your choice...
or if you want a much more detailed 20 hour explanation of this listen to the blueprint.
-Tasman
Tasman,
If it were just a number's game, and it were just about confidence and looks, then walking up to a woman and talking about cleaning latrines or monster trucks would be just as effective as walking up to her and flirting, or being cocky and funny, or complimenting her, or cold reading her.
While Pink is maybe dense enough to believe that, I don't think that you are.
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
well yeah i did make an assumption
that every approach you learn and improve
and by that reasoning it is a numbers game.
but yeah ignored the stupid factor im sure theres somebody in the world who gets worse with every approach
...
rapists...
apparantly that polish guy who kept his daughter in his basement and kept raping her defence goes like this
i was born to rape and im actually a really good amazing person who has managed to contain this for so much of my life when an ordinary person could not have.
so therefore im a good person.
im sure theres even some idiot out there who thinks this does make him a good person.
meh im going to band practise
-Tasman
>effective as walking up to her
>and flirting, or being cocky
>and funny, or complimenting her,
>or cold reading her.
look, talking about monster trucks or your hemorrhoids is an extreme that of course will hurt your chances. that's not lack of game, that's being an idiot.
but if you're a normal guy who looks good and has money and is somebody and your competition is some balding, fat guy with 'game' (what you call game is basically a bunch of conversational gimmicks learned from a website or a book), in that case the good looking normal guy will get the girl most of the time.
does having 'game' hurt you? no, not really (unless it's some creepy miscalibrated routine)... what does hurt you is believing looks don't matter and neglecting to improve yourself in that regard. what hurts you is believing money and status don't matter and nor improving yourself in those areas. what hurts you is spending hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on going out to clubs, seminars, DVDs, fucking seduction songs... when maybe all you needed was a hair transplant, teeth whitening, some nice clothes or a diet.
-PinkSmoke
>look, talking about monster trucks or your >hemorrhoids is an extreme that of course >will hurt your chances. that's not lack of >game, that's being an idiot.
yeah, and 99.9% of men are idiots when it comes to picking up women.
>but if you're a normal guy who looks good >and has money and is somebody and your >competition is some balding, fat guy >with 'game' (what you call game is >basically a bunch of conversational >gimmicks learned from a website or a >book), in that case the good looking >normal guy will get the girl most of the >time.
I disagree, because I'm balding and middle class and that has not been my experience.
PLEASE sport your Beemer or your Rolex while you're in competition with me, cuz it will make it even easier.
Granted, I'm tall and decent looking and have a bit of fashion sense. But what gives me the leg up is that I'm 200% more confident than 99.9% of men, much less needy than 99.9% of men, and I know how to fascinate women, recreate a sense of connection, and get them horny with my words and actions.
>does having 'game' hurt you? no, not >really (unless it's some creepy >miscalibrated routine)... what does hurt >you is believing looks don't matter and >neglecting to improve yourself in that >regard.
Who said anything about neglecting it? It's just that it's not as important as you seem to be making it out to be, based on facts from an isolated microcosmic phenomena called "Speed Dating."
> what hurts you is believing money and >status don't matter and nor improving >yourself in those areas.
It's not always possible to improve those things, and they aren't as important to "good girls" (the kind that won't even let you buy them a drink because they value love and connections more than money or fame).
For golddiggers, sure money is a PRIME factor. For freaks social status is of sometimes of prime importance too.
>what hurts you is spending hundreds of >hours and thousands of dollars on going >out to clubs, seminars, DVDs, fucking >seduction songs... when maybe all you >needed was a hair transplant, teeth >whitening, some nice clothes or a diet.
You really think that just that stuff alone will up you from 0 lays to one lay a month or more with beautiful women like PUA skills can?
Don't you realize that some men have approach anxiety and have NEVER approached a woman cold? Don't you realize that certain coaches have excercizes which overcome this? Don't your realize that many, many men have escalation anxiety, and the only time they've ever been laid is when they happened upon a really aggressive woman? Don't you realize that some of the routines are geared towards making people comfortable and OK with going in for a kiss or using kino?
Do you really think it's just as effective for a good looking guy to walk up to a stranger and ask her out or for a phone number (like I have seen SOOO many AFCs do) as it is to walk up to her, make her feel comfortable and intrigued by what you say, and then move to the next step?
I think the thing that you might be missing, besides the fact that women use more than just LOOKS to determine what's attractive to them in the real world (as opposed to when they're just looking at photos or having/viewing short interview style encounters), is that a woman cannot possibly fuck all of the guys she finds attractive...that women find many more men attractive than you would believe...and that there are societal consequences to fucking too many of the men she finds attractive. OR for fucking a man she just wants a ONS from and not a relationship, or vice versa. Also, you underestimate how positively BAD most men are in bed, and underestimate a man's ability to display how good he is in bed without actually having sex. Women are horny, but they are TIRED of bad sex.
How does she decide which of the attractive men who want to fuck her get to fuck her? Just chance that they are alone with her? Well then how do we get her alone? Is it ok to discuss it or should we just concentrate on looks?
Often the woman perceives her "attraction" or "choosing of one particular hot guy" as just some "magic" kind of thing. So do you believe in magic, like the universe causes her to feel those butterflies for this hot guy and not that hot guy because of Karma and past lives and universal space/time currents and flows of quantum mechanics? Do you believe only soul mates have sex? Or do you believe that something causes those feelings she gets inside?
About your comparison of PUA to hair transplants and teeth whitening:
I would go to bars (not clubs) anyway cuz I like alcohol, socializing, and live music. But going to a mall or a coffee shop is free. A home study course costs $300 to $500, not thousands. Bootcamps are a recent phenomena, and I'm unsure of their worth (I've heard from some peeps that it's just a chance to idol worship and watch some PUA). ASF is free. A CD with arousing, suggestive music on it used to costs $20, but is no longer available.
Hair replacement costs out the yin yang, and some women really dig on bald men. When I shave it clean, I have women approaching me to rub it out of the blue. It's a fetish, though, not some universal thing.
Just like some women love chest hair and some don't.
Again, looks are relative and individual specific.
Sure use teeth whiteners and have some fashion sense! Why not? I don't remember anyone on here suggesting that you shouldn't!
-Seduction Maestro
songsofseduction.blogspot.com
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
The Pickup Artist Season 2 Episode 1 on VH1
Well I saw this about a week ago when VH1 "leaked" it and the Atlanta Lair picked it up, and found the marketing ploy worked great... because I found myself having to know if my hunch was right about who'd get canned. So I watched it all over again on Sunday night.
Yeah I was right. I thought there was a slight possibility Mystery might dump Rian instead of Alex, which would have been really disappointing, but I just had one of those Unicorny hunches about the fat boy.
What I don't like about the show is how they cut the real hardcases off first. In episode 1 Mystery was DIEING to can the old dude. He almost looked flustered trying to not be so obvious about convincing Spoon to stay. And this season he goes for the hardest case first. It begs the question, can MM really work for any guy? Or does it just work for young guys who aren't overweight? I didn't see Joe D. get any make-outs last year either.
Now, the show has already been recapped buy some famous PUAs, and out of the three I read I found Mehow's most insightful.
Mehow's Blog
Mehow might be a little over-into this, like an obssessive sports fan, but he's got the best updates, insider news, and probably the most informed take on it.
Yeah he's using his critiques and Pick Up Artist Hits to subtly show customers that he knows his shit and could easily transform these sufferers of "surface problems," but he was spot on for the most part.
I'm glad to see he agreed with me on a few points, but was surprised he thought that Alex slips into "gay mode" as opposed to really being gay.
Trust me, Alex has just GOT to be gay or there is no order left anywhere in the universe!
Here were my comments to Mehow's initial post:
How many openers and gimmicks are they going to expose? I’m glad it’s Mystery and not Neil or he’d prolly expose HW analysis and the Cube for us.
Will the contestents still be getting a open VIP couch and limo so that bouncing to isolation is easy even for an afc?
I was mainly upset about Spoon getting eliminated last time, even though he did it to himself. It reminded me of that poor country boy in Full Metal Jacket. I hope that Spoon continued his studies and is doing well with girls these days, I LIKED him!
Also, there was only one guy over like 25 on the show last time. He was 40 plus and pretty hopeless. Are they going to have some 30 plus peeps on there this time?
If Mystery and his boys are the kings of teaching club game, then he needs to get a 40 year old to the last elimination. Teaching youngin’s game on shallow chicks isn’t all that impressive, but if that 40 something had of actually gotten laid I might have been impressed.
-Maestro
Mehow Says:
Spoon’s been getting laid hard core so you don’t have to worry about him.
The cast is younger this time than last season which I’m not happy about … i’d like them to show some 35+ people with success. VH1 caters to the older crowd so I’m not sure why it was all young all the time.
I wasn’t happy about Spoon quitting either - expect more stuff like that this season though.
I don’t think a lot of gambits will be exposed … the infield segments are brief like last season plus the guys were teaching a lot of natural game.
-Mehow
Mehow's Pick: He's Pulling for Karl, Alex, Rian and the Asian guys but looks like he thinks Simeon will Win
Next up is Sinn's post on the game. I didn't think it was as insightful as Mehow's, but at least he recognized Alex's obvious pure unadulterated gheyness. I don't have anything against gay people, but when they pretend to be on the other side just to get TV time and a chance to breathe in their heart-throb celbrity's shadow, it kinda ticks me off. were Rian and Alex the only actual loser's loser's to choose from? They couldn't find a fat effiminate guy who actually WANTS help getting laid....by women?
Here are my responses to Sinn's post, who I already have a slight issue with for falsely and subtly putting down other Seduction Systems in order to promote his upcoming Coaching Program in the guise of a "Game Accelorator" free mini-ebook that was mostly rehashed stuff. But much respect for him because he actually let my comments fly by his screening:
Sinn's Blog
Here are some of Sinn's comments that kinda irked me:
Now it's time for Mystery and Matador to go in. This year they don't peacock. They both do well despite being C list celebrities. Seriously VH1? I know they didn't peacock but they still get recognized as they walk in. You can see it on the show. they're greeted by a mixed group before they say anything as The Pick Up Artist guys... This proves nothing. O.J Simpson still gets laid by hot girls and he allegedly killed his last wife. Fame overrides all game. They should have had a few of VA's approach coaches go in, so that the guys could actually see real cold approaches. I feel like VH1 really dropped the ball here....
After the formalities of the guys being amazed by celebrities making out with girls, it's time for makeovers.
-Sinn
Uhh...what they showed was a neatly edited typical night out for a guy like me when I DON'T get laid. What warranted Sinn to think that celebrity status would be needed for even a mediocre PUA to get this kind of action? Maybe some of the girl's recognized Matador and Mystery, but I don't doubt that they could do it without being famous in another club at all...because I do the same damn thing all the time and I'm not famous!
What was the big deal? An eskimo kiss? A make-out? Introducing girls to your friends? A woman striking up a conversation with a person she doesn't know by grabbing him while he walks by? Acknowledging a woman so she won't drag her friend away? Wow mad skills, dude.
Sounds like a typical night at a bar to me, and it doesn't even mean you're getting laid.
Doesn't this happen to you, Sinn?
OK next wierd comment-
"Tara's a hot chick I don't respect because she slept with Mystery. Or so the rumor I've heard goes. I have absolutely no respect for any girl who sleeps with Erik, and have actually canceled dates with girls because of this."
Your girls have slept with worse than Mystery, Sinn. they're girls, they have hormones, so what? That's just your pride limiting your opportunitties...or something.
Yeah I guess she's a hot chick, in fact beautiful, just not very sexual or sensual. Too much work to get her out of autopilot and into the 4th level of her mind, for way too little sexual reward. Who cares if she slept with Mystery.
"Tara is also a REMARKABLY bad actress. She's so unconvincing they have to cut away from her as she's talking about how she believes in what Mystery teaches."
Yeah and she prolly doesn't even know she doesn't believe in it.
"Wow one guy had never had a professional haircut. How does that even happen? I mean at what point do you decide it's not ok for your mom to cut your hair anymore. For me it was like 6."
How? It can happen when your not a metrosexual in LA. I shave my own shit and it looks delicious, bitch! Just the shadow of the bowie knife.
"We get the first almost breakdown of the show by Rian, and Tara does a half assed job of reassuring him. She halfheartedly tells him that EVERYONE has insecurities. Thank you for your insight Tara. I totally see why they got rid of the awesome Jdog for you."
I wonder if Sinn would have put down Speed Seduction in his Game Acceleration post if he had known that praising J-Dog contradicts what he said about the method, as J-Dog was a very successful SS student before he got into Planet Hollywood?
You can read the rest of Sinn's article here:
Sinn on PUA 2
Sinn's Faorite: Carl, the guy who got cheated on, plays half-ass guitar, and works at Radio Shack.
Now last up is Thundercat's take on this whole thing. Thundie would have made a good contestant, as he is an rafc despite his yearly Top 10 PUA List. he is a social fat guy with mad internet marketing skills and a great sense of humor, but I'm far from convinced that he actually has sex with any of his hot female friends. He looks like LJBF material if I ever saw it, and he teaches mostly AFC game. A guy needs something more powerful than just dating tips on steroids when he's fat and bald, and Thundie seems absolutely carebear huggy to me.
Thundercat on The PUA
Here are my comments:
BTW…King Kosmo did worse than the fatty his first night out, but Mystery didn’t fire him.
‘Splain that!
I think it’s cuz the dude is gay and Mystery knew it, whether the dude knows it or not.
Forget the silly bling- did you see the SCARF on that broom-pusher?
Erik von aint lettin’ nobody live at the pad who’s just there for the 10 secs of fame.
Yup the “Spark” Mystery was talking about was……..ACTUAL ATTRACTION TO WOMEN! A desire to bang them, even!
Not a desire to parade your fat-ass ‘cross a department store wearing something FABulous while your crush’s film crew follows it!
I wonder if the boy gave Mystery an SOI backstage and it freaked him?
-Maestro
Thundercat's Pick for Winner: Todd, the guy in LJBF land, or Kevin, the afro-less Asian guy.
Seduction Maestro's Pick: Simeon Vs. Greg in the finals. Simeon has more drive, greg has more creativity. We shall see.
One thing I disagree with all the critics on - this season's contestants aren't any more afc than last year's. No old dude even. The only fat guy got eliminated immediately. Only guy left that would really impress me if he got good is Rian, and even he can do it easily. I wanna see some REAL nerds with REAL problems, and I want to see them changed like they get changed as SS and Essential Skills seminars...or I'll keep thinking that MM is just good for normal guys.
And by the way, where are the black dudes? Is it the stereotype that African Americans are born with game? Certainly African is more prevalent than Phillipino in America? Why isn't Jesse Jackson stomping on Mystery's fur hat about now?
Next season I want old guys, bald guys, fat guys, and really ugly guys...or it means that MM aint as powerful as another system I know about!
Yeah I was right. I thought there was a slight possibility Mystery might dump Rian instead of Alex, which would have been really disappointing, but I just had one of those Unicorny hunches about the fat boy.
What I don't like about the show is how they cut the real hardcases off first. In episode 1 Mystery was DIEING to can the old dude. He almost looked flustered trying to not be so obvious about convincing Spoon to stay. And this season he goes for the hardest case first. It begs the question, can MM really work for any guy? Or does it just work for young guys who aren't overweight? I didn't see Joe D. get any make-outs last year either.
Now, the show has already been recapped buy some famous PUAs, and out of the three I read I found Mehow's most insightful.
Mehow's Blog
Mehow might be a little over-into this, like an obssessive sports fan, but he's got the best updates, insider news, and probably the most informed take on it.
Yeah he's using his critiques and Pick Up Artist Hits to subtly show customers that he knows his shit and could easily transform these sufferers of "surface problems," but he was spot on for the most part.
I'm glad to see he agreed with me on a few points, but was surprised he thought that Alex slips into "gay mode" as opposed to really being gay.
Trust me, Alex has just GOT to be gay or there is no order left anywhere in the universe!
Here were my comments to Mehow's initial post:
How many openers and gimmicks are they going to expose? I’m glad it’s Mystery and not Neil or he’d prolly expose HW analysis and the Cube for us.
Will the contestents still be getting a open VIP couch and limo so that bouncing to isolation is easy even for an afc?
I was mainly upset about Spoon getting eliminated last time, even though he did it to himself. It reminded me of that poor country boy in Full Metal Jacket. I hope that Spoon continued his studies and is doing well with girls these days, I LIKED him!
Also, there was only one guy over like 25 on the show last time. He was 40 plus and pretty hopeless. Are they going to have some 30 plus peeps on there this time?
If Mystery and his boys are the kings of teaching club game, then he needs to get a 40 year old to the last elimination. Teaching youngin’s game on shallow chicks isn’t all that impressive, but if that 40 something had of actually gotten laid I might have been impressed.
-Maestro
Mehow Says:
Spoon’s been getting laid hard core so you don’t have to worry about him.
The cast is younger this time than last season which I’m not happy about … i’d like them to show some 35+ people with success. VH1 caters to the older crowd so I’m not sure why it was all young all the time.
I wasn’t happy about Spoon quitting either - expect more stuff like that this season though.
I don’t think a lot of gambits will be exposed … the infield segments are brief like last season plus the guys were teaching a lot of natural game.
-Mehow
Mehow's Pick: He's Pulling for Karl, Alex, Rian and the Asian guys but looks like he thinks Simeon will Win
Next up is Sinn's post on the game. I didn't think it was as insightful as Mehow's, but at least he recognized Alex's obvious pure unadulterated gheyness. I don't have anything against gay people, but when they pretend to be on the other side just to get TV time and a chance to breathe in their heart-throb celbrity's shadow, it kinda ticks me off. were Rian and Alex the only actual loser's loser's to choose from? They couldn't find a fat effiminate guy who actually WANTS help getting laid....by women?
Here are my responses to Sinn's post, who I already have a slight issue with for falsely and subtly putting down other Seduction Systems in order to promote his upcoming Coaching Program in the guise of a "Game Accelorator" free mini-ebook that was mostly rehashed stuff. But much respect for him because he actually let my comments fly by his screening:
Sinn's Blog
Here are some of Sinn's comments that kinda irked me:
Now it's time for Mystery and Matador to go in. This year they don't peacock. They both do well despite being C list celebrities. Seriously VH1? I know they didn't peacock but they still get recognized as they walk in. You can see it on the show. they're greeted by a mixed group before they say anything as The Pick Up Artist guys... This proves nothing. O.J Simpson still gets laid by hot girls and he allegedly killed his last wife. Fame overrides all game. They should have had a few of VA's approach coaches go in, so that the guys could actually see real cold approaches. I feel like VH1 really dropped the ball here....
After the formalities of the guys being amazed by celebrities making out with girls, it's time for makeovers.
-Sinn
Uhh...what they showed was a neatly edited typical night out for a guy like me when I DON'T get laid. What warranted Sinn to think that celebrity status would be needed for even a mediocre PUA to get this kind of action? Maybe some of the girl's recognized Matador and Mystery, but I don't doubt that they could do it without being famous in another club at all...because I do the same damn thing all the time and I'm not famous!
What was the big deal? An eskimo kiss? A make-out? Introducing girls to your friends? A woman striking up a conversation with a person she doesn't know by grabbing him while he walks by? Acknowledging a woman so she won't drag her friend away? Wow mad skills, dude.
Sounds like a typical night at a bar to me, and it doesn't even mean you're getting laid.
Doesn't this happen to you, Sinn?
OK next wierd comment-
"Tara's a hot chick I don't respect because she slept with Mystery. Or so the rumor I've heard goes. I have absolutely no respect for any girl who sleeps with Erik, and have actually canceled dates with girls because of this."
Your girls have slept with worse than Mystery, Sinn. they're girls, they have hormones, so what? That's just your pride limiting your opportunitties...or something.
Yeah I guess she's a hot chick, in fact beautiful, just not very sexual or sensual. Too much work to get her out of autopilot and into the 4th level of her mind, for way too little sexual reward. Who cares if she slept with Mystery.
"Tara is also a REMARKABLY bad actress. She's so unconvincing they have to cut away from her as she's talking about how she believes in what Mystery teaches."
Yeah and she prolly doesn't even know she doesn't believe in it.
"Wow one guy had never had a professional haircut. How does that even happen? I mean at what point do you decide it's not ok for your mom to cut your hair anymore. For me it was like 6."
How? It can happen when your not a metrosexual in LA. I shave my own shit and it looks delicious, bitch! Just the shadow of the bowie knife.
"We get the first almost breakdown of the show by Rian, and Tara does a half assed job of reassuring him. She halfheartedly tells him that EVERYONE has insecurities. Thank you for your insight Tara. I totally see why they got rid of the awesome Jdog for you."
I wonder if Sinn would have put down Speed Seduction in his Game Acceleration post if he had known that praising J-Dog contradicts what he said about the method, as J-Dog was a very successful SS student before he got into Planet Hollywood?
You can read the rest of Sinn's article here:
Sinn on PUA 2
Sinn's Faorite: Carl, the guy who got cheated on, plays half-ass guitar, and works at Radio Shack.
Now last up is Thundercat's take on this whole thing. Thundie would have made a good contestant, as he is an rafc despite his yearly Top 10 PUA List. he is a social fat guy with mad internet marketing skills and a great sense of humor, but I'm far from convinced that he actually has sex with any of his hot female friends. He looks like LJBF material if I ever saw it, and he teaches mostly AFC game. A guy needs something more powerful than just dating tips on steroids when he's fat and bald, and Thundie seems absolutely carebear huggy to me.
Thundercat on The PUA
Here are my comments:
BTW…King Kosmo did worse than the fatty his first night out, but Mystery didn’t fire him.
‘Splain that!
I think it’s cuz the dude is gay and Mystery knew it, whether the dude knows it or not.
Forget the silly bling- did you see the SCARF on that broom-pusher?
Erik von aint lettin’ nobody live at the pad who’s just there for the 10 secs of fame.
Yup the “Spark” Mystery was talking about was……..ACTUAL ATTRACTION TO WOMEN! A desire to bang them, even!
Not a desire to parade your fat-ass ‘cross a department store wearing something FABulous while your crush’s film crew follows it!
I wonder if the boy gave Mystery an SOI backstage and it freaked him?
-Maestro
Thundercat's Pick for Winner: Todd, the guy in LJBF land, or Kevin, the afro-less Asian guy.
Seduction Maestro's Pick: Simeon Vs. Greg in the finals. Simeon has more drive, greg has more creativity. We shall see.
One thing I disagree with all the critics on - this season's contestants aren't any more afc than last year's. No old dude even. The only fat guy got eliminated immediately. Only guy left that would really impress me if he got good is Rian, and even he can do it easily. I wanna see some REAL nerds with REAL problems, and I want to see them changed like they get changed as SS and Essential Skills seminars...or I'll keep thinking that MM is just good for normal guys.
And by the way, where are the black dudes? Is it the stereotype that African Americans are born with game? Certainly African is more prevalent than Phillipino in America? Why isn't Jesse Jackson stomping on Mystery's fur hat about now?
Next season I want old guys, bald guys, fat guys, and really ugly guys...or it means that MM aint as powerful as another system I know about!
Friday, August 29, 2008
Songs of Seduction is Off the Market
No this is not a sales promotion.
The sad truth is that one of the musicians who contributed to the Songs of Seduction Album has signed an exclusive record deal and asked us to remove his songs. I regret to inform you that there will not be any kind of closing sale, I tam taking the pay button down after this post, and have already removed all listings from ebay. We will most likely replace the lost 3 songs with newer tones, evoking the corresponding states in the process of seduction.
But we've got new toys to play with.
This is gonna be good.
It may be a while, but this blog will come back alive when your music is ready. Until then I intend to post from time to time about my maniacal life. I'm no high status PUA, so don't think it. I'm just a charming community eccentric somewhere just above the middle on the ladder between cluelessness and mastery, but I lead a hell of an interesting life. Don't try it at home.
The sad truth is that one of the musicians who contributed to the Songs of Seduction Album has signed an exclusive record deal and asked us to remove his songs. I regret to inform you that there will not be any kind of closing sale, I tam taking the pay button down after this post, and have already removed all listings from ebay. We will most likely replace the lost 3 songs with newer tones, evoking the corresponding states in the process of seduction.
But we've got new toys to play with.
This is gonna be good.
It may be a while, but this blog will come back alive when your music is ready. Until then I intend to post from time to time about my maniacal life. I'm no high status PUA, so don't think it. I'm just a charming community eccentric somewhere just above the middle on the ladder between cluelessness and mastery, but I lead a hell of an interesting life. Don't try it at home.
Tuesday, July 22, 2008
Thundercat Talks Shit and I Have to Step Up and Break Him Down
Below I've posted Thundercat's original article about the Leykis/Jeffries debate supplemented with my commentswhere appropriate. This Thundercat guy is a real tool and I see him constantly displaying his lack of knowledge and experience in the seduction field on his blog. My comments are in bold italics.
Leykis Vs. Jeffries
No bigsurprise that MINE'99 likes to attack people who are better than him (which is pretty much just about everybody in the scene). And in one of his latest blog posts, he targets Tom Lykis, popular radio personality and "Hollywood Ladies Man."
Check out this rant Ross spewed...
Ross Jeffries writes:
Dear Speed Seduction(R) Student,
One of the questions I’m sometimes asked is, “What do you think of Tom Leykis and Leykis 101?”
For those of you who don’t know, Leykis has an enormously popular syndicated radio talk show(he’s on 97.1 FM here in Southern California) where he mostly preaches his misogynist doctrine on success with women, called Leykis 101.
While Leykis talks about the importance of having game, which is certainly important, it his definition of what game is that is troublesome and twisted.
Essentially Leykis believes that women are attracted mostly to men with money, and that women have sex not because they mostly enjoy it, but to latch on to a man and use him as a meal ticket. And he further believes that by treating women like trash, they will feel the need to validate themselves by sleeping with the men who treat them in this fashion.
For him, game is therefore about lying to women about your social-economic status to make yourself more appealing and treating women like doo doo.
What isn’t stated in all of this is what I actually find most troubling; that sex is basically about dumping your load on or into someone who visually excites you but emotionally repels you. It’s about stimulation and discharge and nothing more; a sort of very vivid and interactive jack-off.
Isn’t it interesting? His view of women and how they should be treated, matches up and reflects his experience of sex. If you hold people as contemptible then how could you view joining with them intimately as something other than contemptible at worst, or merely mechanical build up and release at best?
And beyond that, his ideas are inaccurate to be generous about it. The biggest inaccuracy that women don’t enjoy and crave sex for its own sake, and that pretending to be able to buy them is the best way to go about things.
Very sad for Tom and for those listeners he badly misleads. For those of us who know how to capture and lead womens’ imagination and emotions, we know how utterly unnecessary the contempt and the lying is, and how grateful women are to be lead to the kinds of wonderful feelings they deeply crave.
Dump the hate, Tom. And open up your mind.
Peace and piece,
RJ
P.S. If you are a Leykis listener I especially invite your comments.
Well, Ross, you're in luck, because I AM a Lykis listener, and I've got some comments...
>First of all - I love how MINE'99 berates Tom for hating women, when its obvious to anyone with a brain that Ross has more hate and bitterness towards women than any man since Ted Bundy.
How so? he treats the ones I've seen him with pretty well, and keeps names and situations much more annonymous on the net than most money grubbing PUA gurus do.
>(The only difference here is that women tended to LIKE Ted Bundy before he went all psycho killer on them.)
Just hurling insults with nothing to back them up? Another sign of insecurity. No wonder you can't simply ask a girl her number at a supermarket, even when you've got good rapport with her.
>Need I remind the world that Ross is the guy who proudly taught people how to regress a woman back to childhood and fuck with her sexual identity so you can have sex with them?
Where do you get this stuff? I certainly haven't ever seen anything like that in the 14 years I've been keeping up with SS.
Now, age regression is a great hypnotic technique that can change people's lives for the better, and technology has no morality. I've age regressed people for their benefit because they asked me to, or because we were having fun in that playful state that only kids usually get to experience. But it wasn't "fucking with a woman's mind to get laid."
I know it's hard for you to grasp because you seem to come from an extremely strict religious background. But there's nothing wrong with yoga, meditation, hypnosis, or whatever. It's just a really relaxing state, and Jesus don't mind if you relax your brain and enjoy yourself.
> How women are nothing but objects to be turned into "sex slaves" through hypnosis?
No, never heard that either. Maybe it's in the marketing of the old Penthouse magazines? Don't me stupid, dude, you at least grasp the basics of marketing and headlining, no?
>Anyone who was in the early days of SS knows how bitter Ross is towards women.
Last time I checked "bitter" was an emotion not a life-long disease, and I don't recall much bitterness in him anyways.
You, however, that's a different story.
> This is also a guy who joked about hypnotizing his brother's wife into giving him a blowjob.
Man you can really dig shit up out of some back alley, can't you?
Did he do actually do it or did he joke about it? If it's the latter, lighten up. If it's the fomer, what does this have to do with the fact that this Lykis guy is a joke, and that Ross was %100 right about him?
>To me, its obvious that Ross misses the boat when it comes to what Tom Lykis teaches. Tom's show is really about how men need to take power back from a feminist, anti-male, society.
Hmmm...do I catch a wiff of...bitterness?
> He sees how men are degraded and robbed of their power in this world, and his aim is to EDUCATE men on how to keep their power, especially with women.
Well I'm not robbed of my power, Thundercat. I'm glad the world is like you, hypnotized and on autopilot, because that gives me the easy power to WAKE PEOPLE UP and turn them on to things that your little mind couldn't possibly imagine.
I'm sorry that evolution has dealt you a raw deal, and that you aren't able to learn the higher forms of seduction that would make you THE MAN instead of a poser of the MAN, but so it goes.
>Let me tell you - if ANY GUY out there has a problem with supplication, it'll be cured by listening to Tom Lykis. Sure, sometimes he goes too far and can sound very bitter about women. But for the most part, he speaks the truth.
Yeah, if you can't make a girl feel like a playful kid again, make her whole world a sensual playground without even having touched her, and fuck her in
a way she's never known before and will never know again, I guess you have to pretend like you have money and fame and are a dick to get laid.
>Tom's philosophy can really be divided into two parts - one is the technique, which is all about "getting laid for less money." The other is the philosophy, which is about having self respect, retaining your power, and keeping society from cutting off your balls.
Why would I even think about those things? They are a given, and you guys seem really worried about losing them.
>His point is that women don't undertand a man's need for sex. For us, ejaculation is as necessary as going to the bathroom.
He fails to under stand that sex is just as necessary for them. But they rarely if ever get really good sex. Mostly cuz guys like you think of nothing but ejaculating.
>Tom's philosophy is that if women aren't pleasing their men, their men will look for it elsewhere because that physical need to ejaculate is so strong.
Or they watch porn. What's the point and how does it help us? We gonna make all the women listen to this guys radio show?
> Ross tries to paint it as though Tom has this shallow view of sex, when in reality, he's trying to educate women on men's physical urges.
No, Ross probably sees alot of flaws and damaging info in this bratty jocky's memes and recognizes the opportunitty to do some good marketing while helping to derail the snake oil medicine show. Is that really so bad?
I mean here you are, the epitome of RAFC, and your making money off of a seduction site. If I were all pent up like you, I might fault you for it.
>Tom has been married 6 times. To my knowledge, Ross has never been married.
LOL being married 6 times (which equals six failures) is better than never being married ( which equals 0 failures and 0 dependents) ?
Jeez you've never actually been in a long term relationship, have you Thundy?
>and Tom has banged hundreds of women. To my knowledge, I don't know of any women Ross has banged.
Yes, Ross is one of the only gentlemen left in the PUA scene, and doesn't seem to have to expose his women to gain bragging rights. Since you know that Ross is good with women, I guess now your rant has just become a kind of age regression, and your reaching for straws.
I'm glad you look up to someone who brags about how many women he's "banged" enough that you can count them.
> (That's not to say there aren't any, I just don't know of any) Tom gets hot girls, and Ross, well, doesn't. Tom is rich. Ross isn't.
Not gonna back those statements up, are you, my
country bumpkin?
Leykis Vs. Jeffries
No bigsurprise that MINE'99 likes to attack people who are better than him (which is pretty much just about everybody in the scene). And in one of his latest blog posts, he targets Tom Lykis, popular radio personality and "Hollywood Ladies Man."
Check out this rant Ross spewed...
Ross Jeffries writes:
Dear Speed Seduction(R) Student,
One of the questions I’m sometimes asked is, “What do you think of Tom Leykis and Leykis 101?”
For those of you who don’t know, Leykis has an enormously popular syndicated radio talk show(he’s on 97.1 FM here in Southern California) where he mostly preaches his misogynist doctrine on success with women, called Leykis 101.
While Leykis talks about the importance of having game, which is certainly important, it his definition of what game is that is troublesome and twisted.
Essentially Leykis believes that women are attracted mostly to men with money, and that women have sex not because they mostly enjoy it, but to latch on to a man and use him as a meal ticket. And he further believes that by treating women like trash, they will feel the need to validate themselves by sleeping with the men who treat them in this fashion.
For him, game is therefore about lying to women about your social-economic status to make yourself more appealing and treating women like doo doo.
What isn’t stated in all of this is what I actually find most troubling; that sex is basically about dumping your load on or into someone who visually excites you but emotionally repels you. It’s about stimulation and discharge and nothing more; a sort of very vivid and interactive jack-off.
Isn’t it interesting? His view of women and how they should be treated, matches up and reflects his experience of sex. If you hold people as contemptible then how could you view joining with them intimately as something other than contemptible at worst, or merely mechanical build up and release at best?
And beyond that, his ideas are inaccurate to be generous about it. The biggest inaccuracy that women don’t enjoy and crave sex for its own sake, and that pretending to be able to buy them is the best way to go about things.
Very sad for Tom and for those listeners he badly misleads. For those of us who know how to capture and lead womens’ imagination and emotions, we know how utterly unnecessary the contempt and the lying is, and how grateful women are to be lead to the kinds of wonderful feelings they deeply crave.
Dump the hate, Tom. And open up your mind.
Peace and piece,
RJ
P.S. If you are a Leykis listener I especially invite your comments.
Well, Ross, you're in luck, because I AM a Lykis listener, and I've got some comments...
>First of all - I love how MINE'99 berates Tom for hating women, when its obvious to anyone with a brain that Ross has more hate and bitterness towards women than any man since Ted Bundy.
How so? he treats the ones I've seen him with pretty well, and keeps names and situations much more annonymous on the net than most money grubbing PUA gurus do.
>(The only difference here is that women tended to LIKE Ted Bundy before he went all psycho killer on them.)
Just hurling insults with nothing to back them up? Another sign of insecurity. No wonder you can't simply ask a girl her number at a supermarket, even when you've got good rapport with her.
>Need I remind the world that Ross is the guy who proudly taught people how to regress a woman back to childhood and fuck with her sexual identity so you can have sex with them?
Where do you get this stuff? I certainly haven't ever seen anything like that in the 14 years I've been keeping up with SS.
Now, age regression is a great hypnotic technique that can change people's lives for the better, and technology has no morality. I've age regressed people for their benefit because they asked me to, or because we were having fun in that playful state that only kids usually get to experience. But it wasn't "fucking with a woman's mind to get laid."
I know it's hard for you to grasp because you seem to come from an extremely strict religious background. But there's nothing wrong with yoga, meditation, hypnosis, or whatever. It's just a really relaxing state, and Jesus don't mind if you relax your brain and enjoy yourself.
> How women are nothing but objects to be turned into "sex slaves" through hypnosis?
No, never heard that either. Maybe it's in the marketing of the old Penthouse magazines? Don't me stupid, dude, you at least grasp the basics of marketing and headlining, no?
>Anyone who was in the early days of SS knows how bitter Ross is towards women.
Last time I checked "bitter" was an emotion not a life-long disease, and I don't recall much bitterness in him anyways.
You, however, that's a different story.
> This is also a guy who joked about hypnotizing his brother's wife into giving him a blowjob.
Man you can really dig shit up out of some back alley, can't you?
Did he do actually do it or did he joke about it? If it's the latter, lighten up. If it's the fomer, what does this have to do with the fact that this Lykis guy is a joke, and that Ross was %100 right about him?
>To me, its obvious that Ross misses the boat when it comes to what Tom Lykis teaches. Tom's show is really about how men need to take power back from a feminist, anti-male, society.
Hmmm...do I catch a wiff of...bitterness?
> He sees how men are degraded and robbed of their power in this world, and his aim is to EDUCATE men on how to keep their power, especially with women.
Well I'm not robbed of my power, Thundercat. I'm glad the world is like you, hypnotized and on autopilot, because that gives me the easy power to WAKE PEOPLE UP and turn them on to things that your little mind couldn't possibly imagine.
I'm sorry that evolution has dealt you a raw deal, and that you aren't able to learn the higher forms of seduction that would make you THE MAN instead of a poser of the MAN, but so it goes.
>Let me tell you - if ANY GUY out there has a problem with supplication, it'll be cured by listening to Tom Lykis. Sure, sometimes he goes too far and can sound very bitter about women. But for the most part, he speaks the truth.
Yeah, if you can't make a girl feel like a playful kid again, make her whole world a sensual playground without even having touched her, and fuck her in
a way she's never known before and will never know again, I guess you have to pretend like you have money and fame and are a dick to get laid.
>Tom's philosophy can really be divided into two parts - one is the technique, which is all about "getting laid for less money." The other is the philosophy, which is about having self respect, retaining your power, and keeping society from cutting off your balls.
Why would I even think about those things? They are a given, and you guys seem really worried about losing them.
>His point is that women don't undertand a man's need for sex. For us, ejaculation is as necessary as going to the bathroom.
He fails to under stand that sex is just as necessary for them. But they rarely if ever get really good sex. Mostly cuz guys like you think of nothing but ejaculating.
>Tom's philosophy is that if women aren't pleasing their men, their men will look for it elsewhere because that physical need to ejaculate is so strong.
Or they watch porn. What's the point and how does it help us? We gonna make all the women listen to this guys radio show?
> Ross tries to paint it as though Tom has this shallow view of sex, when in reality, he's trying to educate women on men's physical urges.
No, Ross probably sees alot of flaws and damaging info in this bratty jocky's memes and recognizes the opportunitty to do some good marketing while helping to derail the snake oil medicine show. Is that really so bad?
I mean here you are, the epitome of RAFC, and your making money off of a seduction site. If I were all pent up like you, I might fault you for it.
>Tom has been married 6 times. To my knowledge, Ross has never been married.
LOL being married 6 times (which equals six failures) is better than never being married ( which equals 0 failures and 0 dependents) ?
Jeez you've never actually been in a long term relationship, have you Thundy?
>and Tom has banged hundreds of women. To my knowledge, I don't know of any women Ross has banged.
Yes, Ross is one of the only gentlemen left in the PUA scene, and doesn't seem to have to expose his women to gain bragging rights. Since you know that Ross is good with women, I guess now your rant has just become a kind of age regression, and your reaching for straws.
I'm glad you look up to someone who brags about how many women he's "banged" enough that you can count them.
> (That's not to say there aren't any, I just don't know of any) Tom gets hot girls, and Ross, well, doesn't. Tom is rich. Ross isn't.
Not gonna back those statements up, are you, my
country bumpkin?
Monday, July 21, 2008
How Songs of Seduction Began Part III
So now I had my Seduction album, chocked full of theory, hypnotic music, and NLP lyrics to get a woman feeling connected, exhilerated, and sexually aroused...but it had never been field tested as a whole!
It was time to see if this monster we had created had real world power, so we all took a copy and went out to play.
For me, an opportunity arose quickly. My cousin and I were pulling in to the local Applebee's for happy hour when we spotted a luscious HB from behind. We couldn't see her face but her body was incredible, with the most perfect latino ass you could ever see on a white girl. My cousin had quite a few words of praise to say about it as we were walking in.
We straddled up to the bar for a cold one, and after a few minutes I recognized a female friend walking by and stopped her to say hello. My cousin said, "She's the one," and asked her to spin around. Sure enough, it was the girl who had been walking in we we pulled up, and her face proved to be just as attractive as the rest of her.
She was meeting a guy friend, who was already at the bar, but we talked a while and exchanged numbers in a purely platonic way. I had hung out with this girl in the past, having mutual friends, but we had never really flirted or experienced any kind of attraction for one another, so I figured she was a great candidate to try the album out on.
I called her the next day and asked her if she wanted to go see the free symphony in the park, and told her some old friends were going to be there. In a few days I was picking her up like in my Ford Futura to go to the show. I had decided for the night not to use any game or NLP whatsoever, and simply enjoy myself while the seduction music did it's work on the way to the concert and on the way back.
So we talked about old times on the way to the park while the hypnotic music built rapport and connection in the background.
The park was loaded with people, and luckily she had brought a blanket and I had brought a bottle of wine. This wasn't perceived as a romantic thing by my lady riend, because blankets and wine are just what you do at a symphony in the park. We talked about the music, joked around, and chatted with people we knew who came walking by our spot, but no seduction lines or methods were used during the evening. Of course I observed the basics of not supplicating or using AFC compliments, but the most in the way of game I might have done during the outing was light, playful kino. I just can't help that- my hands have minds of their own when there's a luscious HB around!
She mentioned the Songs of Seduction music we had listened to several times during the concert, complimenting me on it and asking what the songs were about, even though some of the most skilled classical musicians in the southeast were playing some truly amazing music on stage right in front of us! It was hard not to just naturally run into patterning or game when she asked about the songs, because I had written most of them, and they were essentially patterns and game rolled up into hypnotic rock! So I said as little as I could and let the mystery do it's work.
On the way home we listened to the last four songs on the album, the ones that stimulate sexual arousal, and instead of even asking her I drove straight to MY house. She was flirting with me all the way home, giggling like a school girl as 'Do IT Now!" pounded through the speakers, and by the time we got out at my place she absolutely could not keep her hands off of me!
I actually had trouble opening the door while she was unbuckling my pants, but I eventually got inside and got the job done in right!
There was no doubt in my mind. This album worked!
When my LTOR got back from vacation, I found that it worked on her, too!
Anytime I wanted to get sexual, I found that I could just put the album in and we would be doing the dirty by the time it ended. In fact, it probably made me a very seductively lazy man, and I settled down into a domesticated, one-woman actual LTR for quite some time.
But after the night of that first success, I had to ask: does the album just work for me, or would it work for other people too?
After all, these women KNEW I wrote the music. My voice was on some of the tracks. My bandmates were reporting similar sucsexful stories, but they could claim ownership of the songs too. was it partly social and artistic clout that was getting us laid, or was this album working just as we had planned it to?
There was only one way to find out that we knew of: put he prototype on ebay.
The first album sold in 35 minutes and we've been selling them ever since, with 100% positive feedback and some really wild claims, so we soon knew we had done something right!
To check out what these satisfied customers have to say, check out my last blog post and BE AMAZED!
It was time to see if this monster we had created had real world power, so we all took a copy and went out to play.
For me, an opportunity arose quickly. My cousin and I were pulling in to the local Applebee's for happy hour when we spotted a luscious HB from behind. We couldn't see her face but her body was incredible, with the most perfect latino ass you could ever see on a white girl. My cousin had quite a few words of praise to say about it as we were walking in.
We straddled up to the bar for a cold one, and after a few minutes I recognized a female friend walking by and stopped her to say hello. My cousin said, "She's the one," and asked her to spin around. Sure enough, it was the girl who had been walking in we we pulled up, and her face proved to be just as attractive as the rest of her.
She was meeting a guy friend, who was already at the bar, but we talked a while and exchanged numbers in a purely platonic way. I had hung out with this girl in the past, having mutual friends, but we had never really flirted or experienced any kind of attraction for one another, so I figured she was a great candidate to try the album out on.
I called her the next day and asked her if she wanted to go see the free symphony in the park, and told her some old friends were going to be there. In a few days I was picking her up like in my Ford Futura to go to the show. I had decided for the night not to use any game or NLP whatsoever, and simply enjoy myself while the seduction music did it's work on the way to the concert and on the way back.
So we talked about old times on the way to the park while the hypnotic music built rapport and connection in the background.
The park was loaded with people, and luckily she had brought a blanket and I had brought a bottle of wine. This wasn't perceived as a romantic thing by my lady riend, because blankets and wine are just what you do at a symphony in the park. We talked about the music, joked around, and chatted with people we knew who came walking by our spot, but no seduction lines or methods were used during the evening. Of course I observed the basics of not supplicating or using AFC compliments, but the most in the way of game I might have done during the outing was light, playful kino. I just can't help that- my hands have minds of their own when there's a luscious HB around!
She mentioned the Songs of Seduction music we had listened to several times during the concert, complimenting me on it and asking what the songs were about, even though some of the most skilled classical musicians in the southeast were playing some truly amazing music on stage right in front of us! It was hard not to just naturally run into patterning or game when she asked about the songs, because I had written most of them, and they were essentially patterns and game rolled up into hypnotic rock! So I said as little as I could and let the mystery do it's work.
On the way home we listened to the last four songs on the album, the ones that stimulate sexual arousal, and instead of even asking her I drove straight to MY house. She was flirting with me all the way home, giggling like a school girl as 'Do IT Now!" pounded through the speakers, and by the time we got out at my place she absolutely could not keep her hands off of me!
I actually had trouble opening the door while she was unbuckling my pants, but I eventually got inside and got the job done in right!
There was no doubt in my mind. This album worked!
When my LTOR got back from vacation, I found that it worked on her, too!
Anytime I wanted to get sexual, I found that I could just put the album in and we would be doing the dirty by the time it ended. In fact, it probably made me a very seductively lazy man, and I settled down into a domesticated, one-woman actual LTR for quite some time.
But after the night of that first success, I had to ask: does the album just work for me, or would it work for other people too?
After all, these women KNEW I wrote the music. My voice was on some of the tracks. My bandmates were reporting similar sucsexful stories, but they could claim ownership of the songs too. was it partly social and artistic clout that was getting us laid, or was this album working just as we had planned it to?
There was only one way to find out that we knew of: put he prototype on ebay.
The first album sold in 35 minutes and we've been selling them ever since, with 100% positive feedback and some really wild claims, so we soon knew we had done something right!
To check out what these satisfied customers have to say, check out my last blog post and BE AMAZED!
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Testimonials
When we finished the Songs of Seduction Album and saw how much sargy sucsex with women WE were having with the music, the next step was to see how OTHER people would do with it. I mean, it's one thing when she knows that it's YOUR singing voice suggesting the right things to her in a song that makes her feel oh so good.
But how effective would it be for people who we didn't even know?
There was but one way to find out...
EBAY!
Now with over 500 copies sold, we are yet to have a single negative feedback. And with all those sales we have had only one single solitary return- a guy from Australia who didn't like Rock music and had thought for some reason that it was a Pop album!
No sir, that's Volume 3 which is still in the writing stage; we will inform you when it's released next year!
Just look at what people have to say about this incredibly seductive music!
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But how effective would it be for people who we didn't even know?
There was but one way to find out...
EBAY!
Now with over 500 copies sold, we are yet to have a single negative feedback. And with all those sales we have had only one single solitary return- a guy from Australia who didn't like Rock music and had thought for some reason that it was a Pop album!
No sir, that's Volume 3 which is still in the writing stage; we will inform you when it's released next year!
Just look at what people have to say about this incredibly seductive music!
Good quality download! Item as described! A+++ !!! Buyer: 1995harley-blue ( 139 )
Use this album and she won`t stand a chance ;-) Buyer:
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How To Have Immediate, Easy, Natural Confidence With Women…NOW!
Even though Songs of Seduction will work wonders for your sex life in and of itself, using it with a complimentary method of persuasion (such as Speed Seduction, Swingcat's Real World Seduction, Tom Vizzinni and Kim McFarland's Essential Skills, or David Shade's Masterful-Lover products) will increases its power 10 fold!
That's why I'm going to be posting tips from various seduction gurus who's teachings I respect and whose seduction methods go hand in hand with our music.Ross Jeffries is first up. Our album was directly inspired by Speed Seduction and works on much the same model, so I'm sure you'll find that learning these free tips will expand your sargy sucsex exponentially!
Ross's newsletters start out with the basics, because let's face it, no matter how hot and ready YOUR patterns or MY music get her, her surrender is never certain if you are still an AFC!
Enjoy!
- Seduction Maestro
How To Have Immediate, Easy, Natural Confidence With Women…
NOW!
Dear Speed Seduction® Student,
Half of the revolutionary Speed Seduction® program is the
language techniques that call a woman's deepest feelings and
emotions to the surface, and, within minutes, link those
super-charged positive feelings to you so she….
…Is Driven To Want You Like A Bear To A Picnic!
But the other half are the incredible and very quick methods
that give you the confidence(even despite years of fear and
shyness) to actually…
…Go Out In Life And Use The Methods!
You see, the best techniques for seduction women are useless
if you don't have the confidence to actually use them.
And, if you are pushing great techniques through a wall of
fear, then that fearful energy will get all over the techniques
like a brown fog, and the techniques will fall flat.
Now, most guys spend far too much time trying to "get it right"
in their heads before they will actually try anything in the field.
Don't get me wrong. This "rehearsal confidence" can work
wonders. I even have a fantastic course on this, my Unstoppable
Confidence CD's, that you can actually download right now
from my website:
Speed Seduction!!
But often, what works best, is what I call "acceptance" confidence.
This means that, when it comes to something a bit new and scary,
you simply admit the truth to yourself WITHOUT any drama around it.
For example, you might think, quite truthfully:
1. I don't know what will happen if I go talk to that girl(
truth, you don't know! You can only GUESS!)
2. I don't like the fact that I don't know(truth again. You
aren't saying you can't take it or that it is awful, just
that you don't like it. Fair enough)
3. Let's go talk to her and find out what happens, at least
I will learn SOMETHING and I might have some fun. (again,
truth. You can always learn something and indeed, you might
indeed have fun with it)
The bottom line here is why it is great and useful to
rehearse feeling, looking, sounding and acting in new ways,
sometimes, for some guys who are already too trapped "in
their heads", aiming at being smooth or polished or poised
is the wrong thing to aim at!
Aim instead at "neutrality" which simply means looking at what
is true and refusing to dramatize the rest.
Now, let me add one last rule that will totally free you to
relax and have fun with even the hottest women, from start
to finish; from the initial opening approach all the way to
having your way with her.
"99% of the time, the worst that will happen is that NOTHING
will happen".
This image of women being vicious, cold, rejecting etc is
MOSTLY just a Hollywood movie fiction.
With the exception of clubs where women can often ACT that
way(doesn't mean they really are that way, just that they are
putting up a shield to avoid being mobbed by guys), most
women just don't care enough to be nasty to you if they don't
like your approach!
It's too big a waste of their energy and leaves THEM in a
bad mood if they are mean to you.
99% of the time, if a woman isn't interested, the worst that
will happen is nothing.
She won't yell at you.
She won't give you a mean look.
She won't call you names or call a cop.
If she isn't interested in you, she simply won't do anything.
She just won't respond or will respond very casually.
Most of the time, you will be surprised at how pleasant most
women are, even if they aren't into you or interested
romantically.
Ok, tune in next issue where I will reveal an easy, low-key,
undetectable method to pull women to you like a magnet
as soon as you enter a room. Any guy can do it, in minutes
no matter how previously tongue-tied or shy you might be.
Peace and piece,
RJ
P.S. Your Speed Seduction(R) Home Study course is your gold
key to the treasure chest of success with women, and it is
waiting for you here at:
Speed Seduction!!
Ross Jeffries
6245 Bristol Parkway #275
Culver City
CA 90230
United States
That's why I'm going to be posting tips from various seduction gurus who's teachings I respect and whose seduction methods go hand in hand with our music.Ross Jeffries is first up. Our album was directly inspired by Speed Seduction and works on much the same model, so I'm sure you'll find that learning these free tips will expand your sargy sucsex exponentially!
Ross's newsletters start out with the basics, because let's face it, no matter how hot and ready YOUR patterns or MY music get her, her surrender is never certain if you are still an AFC!
Enjoy!
- Seduction Maestro
How To Have Immediate, Easy, Natural Confidence With Women…
NOW!
Dear Speed Seduction® Student,
Half of the revolutionary Speed Seduction® program is the
language techniques that call a woman's deepest feelings and
emotions to the surface, and, within minutes, link those
super-charged positive feelings to you so she….
…Is Driven To Want You Like A Bear To A Picnic!
But the other half are the incredible and very quick methods
that give you the confidence(even despite years of fear and
shyness) to actually…
…Go Out In Life And Use The Methods!
You see, the best techniques for seduction women are useless
if you don't have the confidence to actually use them.
And, if you are pushing great techniques through a wall of
fear, then that fearful energy will get all over the techniques
like a brown fog, and the techniques will fall flat.
Now, most guys spend far too much time trying to "get it right"
in their heads before they will actually try anything in the field.
Don't get me wrong. This "rehearsal confidence" can work
wonders. I even have a fantastic course on this, my Unstoppable
Confidence CD's, that you can actually download right now
from my website:
Speed Seduction!!
But often, what works best, is what I call "acceptance" confidence.
This means that, when it comes to something a bit new and scary,
you simply admit the truth to yourself WITHOUT any drama around it.
For example, you might think, quite truthfully:
1. I don't know what will happen if I go talk to that girl(
truth, you don't know! You can only GUESS!)
2. I don't like the fact that I don't know(truth again. You
aren't saying you can't take it or that it is awful, just
that you don't like it. Fair enough)
3. Let's go talk to her and find out what happens, at least
I will learn SOMETHING and I might have some fun. (again,
truth. You can always learn something and indeed, you might
indeed have fun with it)
The bottom line here is why it is great and useful to
rehearse feeling, looking, sounding and acting in new ways,
sometimes, for some guys who are already too trapped "in
their heads", aiming at being smooth or polished or poised
is the wrong thing to aim at!
Aim instead at "neutrality" which simply means looking at what
is true and refusing to dramatize the rest.
Now, let me add one last rule that will totally free you to
relax and have fun with even the hottest women, from start
to finish; from the initial opening approach all the way to
having your way with her.
"99% of the time, the worst that will happen is that NOTHING
will happen".
This image of women being vicious, cold, rejecting etc is
MOSTLY just a Hollywood movie fiction.
With the exception of clubs where women can often ACT that
way(doesn't mean they really are that way, just that they are
putting up a shield to avoid being mobbed by guys), most
women just don't care enough to be nasty to you if they don't
like your approach!
It's too big a waste of their energy and leaves THEM in a
bad mood if they are mean to you.
99% of the time, if a woman isn't interested, the worst that
will happen is nothing.
She won't yell at you.
She won't give you a mean look.
She won't call you names or call a cop.
If she isn't interested in you, she simply won't do anything.
She just won't respond or will respond very casually.
Most of the time, you will be surprised at how pleasant most
women are, even if they aren't into you or interested
romantically.
Ok, tune in next issue where I will reveal an easy, low-key,
undetectable method to pull women to you like a magnet
as soon as you enter a room. Any guy can do it, in minutes
no matter how previously tongue-tied or shy you might be.
Peace and piece,
RJ
P.S. Your Speed Seduction(R) Home Study course is your gold
key to the treasure chest of success with women, and it is
waiting for you here at:
Speed Seduction!!
Ross Jeffries
6245 Bristol Parkway #275
Culver City
CA 90230
United States
Introducing Speed Seduction Newsletters!
Even though Songs of Seduction will work wonders for your sex life in and of itself, using it with a complimentary method of persuasion (such as Speed Seduction, Swingcat's Real World Seduction, Tom Vizzinni and Kim McFarland's Essential Skills, or David Shade's Masterful-Lover products) will increases its power 10 fold!
That's why I'm going to be posting tips from various seduction gurus who's teachings I respect and whose seduction methods go hand in hand with our music. Ross Jeffries is first up. Our album was directly inspired by Speed Seduction(TM) and works on much the same model, so I'm sure you'll find that learning these free tips will expand your sargy sucsex exponentially!
Ross's newsletters start out with the basics, because let's face it, no matter how hot and ready YOUR patterns or MY music get her, her surrender is never certain if you are still an AFC!
Enjoy!
- Seduction Maestro
How To Talk Women Into Your Bed
Dear Speed Seduction® Student,
In this issue, I want to introduce some of the core concepts
for getting really good at seducing hot women, even when
you don't have looks, social status or money.
You can find out even more by having a look at my
amazing Speed Seduction Home Study Course, right here:
HSC
The Three Power Principles To Get Any Girl Into Bed
Here are three power principles that will allow you
to have choice, variety and consistent success with
the most amazing women, without the 5 B's:
Bullying
Begging
Buying
Bullshit
Booze.
1. Focus on her feelings first. Get your mind off the
BEHAVIORS you want from her(sex, undying loyalty, threesomes,
etc) and put your mind and focus on what feeling states she
would have to be in, in order to want to naturally give you
those behaviors.
2. Realize that the key to her feelings is her imagination.
Capture and lead her imagination and you can generate the
intense feelings and emotions she craves.
3. The key to capturing her imagination AND emotions is how
you use your language both in terms of what YOU say and what
you get her to talk about.
Think of a woman you really, REALLY want to be with.
Wouldn't you like her to experience the following emotional
"states" with you?
*Chemistry
*Fascination
*Connection
*Desire
You would agree that those would be great for starters,
yes? That, given THOSE feelings, she would be far more likely
to say, "JUMP ME NOW" instead of "Let's just be friends!"
By the way, if the only thing you hear from women is "Let's
just be friends" it is because the only feeling states she
experiences around you are casual enjoyment and comfort.
Not enough to get her doing the grown up!)
Are you following along so far?
Now, you may have heard it said that women will decide in
the first ten seconds if they are going to sleep with a guy.
This is almost always NOT true. What is true is that when
women DO decide to sleep with you,(whether it's ten minutes
or ten months into knowing you) they will run that process
of deciding through their body and mind in LESS than ten
seconds.
A woman's attraction to you may SEEM mysterious, like it
comes out of thin air.
But in reality, it is part of a process that she runs
through her mind and in her body.
Use your language in the right way, learn to get her to
ask the right questions, and she will run those processes
and feel those feelings with YOU as if the attraction and
desire were perfectly natural(and in a sense it really will
be!)
That's when you get power, choice and predictable success
with the women you really want.
That sure beats a poke in the eye, doesn't it?
And isn't that what we all really want?
Ok. I think I've piled enough on you for now. But I want
you to really re-read this newsletter another time. Maybe
print it out and take it with you for a long walk, and think
about the implications and how it begins to make sense of a
very important piece of your life. Remember the more we can
"de-mystify" women's emotions and make them something we can
bring to the surface and LINK to us, the more power, choice,
and enjoyment with women we are going to have; women most
guys just get to dream about.
In the next issue we'll get into the nuts and bolts of how
to actually start using your language to do this.
Until then,
P e a c e a n d p i e c e ,
R o s s
P.S. If you want to find out more about the Speed Seduction®
Home Study Course that has gotten thousands of guys going
strongly in the seduction game, getting them the women they
really want, check out my website, with free video files at:
United StatesFree Vids!
This newsletter and all contents are copyright 2006, Ross
Jeffries. This newsletter may be reposted and redistributed
in any format provided all content and all links are left
intact and proper authorship credit is given.
Ross Jeffries
6245 Bristol Parkway #275
Culver City
CA 90230
That's why I'm going to be posting tips from various seduction gurus who's teachings I respect and whose seduction methods go hand in hand with our music. Ross Jeffries is first up. Our album was directly inspired by Speed Seduction(TM) and works on much the same model, so I'm sure you'll find that learning these free tips will expand your sargy sucsex exponentially!
Ross's newsletters start out with the basics, because let's face it, no matter how hot and ready YOUR patterns or MY music get her, her surrender is never certain if you are still an AFC!
Enjoy!
- Seduction Maestro
How To Talk Women Into Your Bed
Dear Speed Seduction® Student,
In this issue, I want to introduce some of the core concepts
for getting really good at seducing hot women, even when
you don't have looks, social status or money.
You can find out even more by having a look at my
amazing Speed Seduction Home Study Course, right here:
HSC
The Three Power Principles To Get Any Girl Into Bed
Here are three power principles that will allow you
to have choice, variety and consistent success with
the most amazing women, without the 5 B's:
Bullying
Begging
Buying
Bullshit
Booze.
1. Focus on her feelings first. Get your mind off the
BEHAVIORS you want from her(sex, undying loyalty, threesomes,
etc) and put your mind and focus on what feeling states she
would have to be in, in order to want to naturally give you
those behaviors.
2. Realize that the key to her feelings is her imagination.
Capture and lead her imagination and you can generate the
intense feelings and emotions she craves.
3. The key to capturing her imagination AND emotions is how
you use your language both in terms of what YOU say and what
you get her to talk about.
Think of a woman you really, REALLY want to be with.
Wouldn't you like her to experience the following emotional
"states" with you?
*Chemistry
*Fascination
*Connection
*Desire
You would agree that those would be great for starters,
yes? That, given THOSE feelings, she would be far more likely
to say, "JUMP ME NOW" instead of "Let's just be friends!"
By the way, if the only thing you hear from women is "Let's
just be friends" it is because the only feeling states she
experiences around you are casual enjoyment and comfort.
Not enough to get her doing the grown up!)
Are you following along so far?
Now, you may have heard it said that women will decide in
the first ten seconds if they are going to sleep with a guy.
This is almost always NOT true. What is true is that when
women DO decide to sleep with you,(whether it's ten minutes
or ten months into knowing you) they will run that process
of deciding through their body and mind in LESS than ten
seconds.
A woman's attraction to you may SEEM mysterious, like it
comes out of thin air.
But in reality, it is part of a process that she runs
through her mind and in her body.
Use your language in the right way, learn to get her to
ask the right questions, and she will run those processes
and feel those feelings with YOU as if the attraction and
desire were perfectly natural(and in a sense it really will
be!)
That's when you get power, choice and predictable success
with the women you really want.
That sure beats a poke in the eye, doesn't it?
And isn't that what we all really want?
Ok. I think I've piled enough on you for now. But I want
you to really re-read this newsletter another time. Maybe
print it out and take it with you for a long walk, and think
about the implications and how it begins to make sense of a
very important piece of your life. Remember the more we can
"de-mystify" women's emotions and make them something we can
bring to the surface and LINK to us, the more power, choice,
and enjoyment with women we are going to have; women most
guys just get to dream about.
In the next issue we'll get into the nuts and bolts of how
to actually start using your language to do this.
Until then,
P e a c e a n d p i e c e ,
R o s s
P.S. If you want to find out more about the Speed Seduction®
Home Study Course that has gotten thousands of guys going
strongly in the seduction game, getting them the women they
really want, check out my website, with free video files at:
United StatesFree Vids!
This newsletter and all contents are copyright 2006, Ross
Jeffries. This newsletter may be reposted and redistributed
in any format provided all content and all links are left
intact and proper authorship credit is given.
Ross Jeffries
6245 Bristol Parkway #275
Culver City
CA 90230
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
How To Get the Most Moist Out Of Your Songs Of Seduction Album
Songs of Seduction Instructions
How To Get the Most Out Of Your Songs Of Seduction Album
The easiest and possibly most effective way to use this CD is to simply play it at a low but audible volume while you are talking with the object of your desires. Just forget about the music as you have a good time talking with the honey bunny you’re with.
A variation on this technique, especially when driving along in a car, is to tell her you have a cool new CD you want her to listen to, and then play the first two songs at a slightly louder listening level. the first two songs get her adrenaline flowing and introduce feelings of romance, connection, and attraction without being too ’over the top". Also, calling her attention to the music will get her subconscious locked onto it. After the the second or third song it would be a good idea to turn the volume back down to a level that is audible but which you are still able to talk above normally. Over-stimulation can be as detrimental as under-stimulation, so you don’t want to overload her with the music or force her to give all of her attention to the CD. Continue with small talk or your own methods of seduction while the music does it’s work on her in the background.
If you are a student of NLP or seduction, you may want to pick one or two of the songs to actually discuss with her. Don’t do more than two because it’s not generally considered normal to dissect a rock album like you would a piece of literature, especially on a date or romantic outting.
You can discuss the song you’ve picked by telling her it’s your favorite on the disc and you want to see what she thinks of it, or that you you know/met the guys in that particular band and want to see if she likes their work. Turn that up a little while the song plays and after it’s over, turn the cd back down to it’s normal level as your conversation goes on, or letting the rest of the music do it’s work subconsciously as you discuss the song in question. You can ask her what she thinks the lyrics mean, or how the music makes her feel. If a student of NLP, you can anchor these emotions. You can also spin patterns off of the thems of the song, or the trance words she gives to describe them. I will give you some pattern ideas for doing this in the the second section of this article.
Another way to use use this CD, although somewhat less effective, is to give it to your prospect. you have our permission to burn it for this purpose and this purpose ONLY, or if you would like extra resail copies you can order multiple CDs for discounted rates by emailing gruffbanejoe@hotmail.com
If using this approach, just tell her it’s the best CD you’ve heard in a while and you thought she would like it, or that you know a guy who plays in one of the bands that got on the album (You do by the way, it’s Me!).
You can also give her a subconscious suggestion by saying, "Mke sure you think of me when you’re listening to it!" with a wink and a laugh.........................or even more casually by saying the opposite, "Make sure you don’t THINK ABOUT ME when you’re listening to it, though.............there’s a few mushy love songs on it."
You can also put it in the multi-disc loop on your CD player and have the songs play randomly along with your other favorite music. This is a more casual use of the CD and is sure to help out your seduction through the power of suggestion, and is a great idea for parties in order to get the ladies in the mood, but the CD is most effective if the situation permits it to be played in order and entirely.
If you’re a seasoned NLP and seduction veteran, however, you may find that just playing one or two songs from the album and using them for a springboard to launch into themes, questions, and patterns is the best method for you.
On the next page is a list of the songs on the album with a description of each and some suggestions for utilizing their suggestive power.
Songs of Seduction Song List
Part I
Spicy Romantic-
This song introduces the album with upbeat romance, both th stimulate increase in heart-rate and to get her to feel those warm, fuzzy emotions. this is a song that you should simply let play. Refrain from discussing it, as it is meant to "warm her up" to seduction themes and to the rest of the music, and is not meant as a springboard for patterns or seduction themes. Women who are fans of Dave mathews Band, pearl jam. and john mayer will especially enjoy this song.
Where the Orchids Grow-
Another "warm up" song to "prime the pump" and get her ready for the seduction at hand, not meant to be dicussed as a theme or springboard for patterns or themes.
For Speed Seduction (TM ROSS JEFFRIES) Students, associated patterns for the first two songs include Incredible Connections, Falling In Love, Open Your Mind Completely, Fascination, etc.
To MJ-
This song was inspired by the "NLP" dialogue between MJ and Peter parker in the first Spiderman Movie. it introduces a mild hypnotic state through the power of rhythm and trance-inducing questions. if you choose this song to discuss witht he object of your desires, you need to be aware of the question the song asks....
"I asked of MJ what is the sign.....that first feeling deep inside.....the one that gives you your first clue.......this is the man you’ll give love to......"
You might ask the woman what she thinks the singer is talking about and listen to what she has to say. Then you can anchor her response and/or give her your own opinion, perhaps laced witht he trance words she has given you.
Try something like this:
"I think he’s talking about how people experience attraction. i mean, what if i were to ask you....What’s the first feeling you get as a sign inside yourself, or to yourself, that you are really starting to like this guy (sp) you’re hanging out with?"
Seduction studentswould do well to use Ross Jeffries Signal Recognition Technology (TM Ross Jeffries) when discussing this song or spinning patterns off of it.
Trance Dance-
Thise piece is a psychedelic trance song played here to bring her heart rate up to the "mildly excited" level and to suggest certain feelings and ideas into her subconscious, that they may be built upon later in the album. It’s a bit too direct to use as a theme to discuss with her, and it’s power lies rather in it’s ability to speak to the unconscious part of her mind. Keep it at an audible level, but it’s best to keep your current conversation going as it plays.
Part II
Now that we have established rapport with the music, suggested "Connection" and "Attraction" themes, and used NLP and rhythm to help her to begin thinking of those ’naughty’ ideas deep inside you’re mine..............................we will begin to mellow the music a bit to get her into a romantic mood before the earth-shattering, mind-blowing climax!
If you listened to the first part of the CD on the way to an event, play the rest of the CD on the way back home.
All That You Are-
A mood shifting song designed to help her begin to think romantically. best played in the background with little attention paid to it in your ongoing conversation.
Firefly-
Another song best not discussed, but layered with powerful suggestions of carnal pleasure. Just let it do it’s magic for you.
Melody-
This song is a metaphor comparing music to sex. it’s words are subtle and "lighten the pressure" at this point in her ongoing seduction. Only advanced students of seduction should attempt to discuss it or spin patterns from it’s lyrics.
For students of Ross jeffries: Associated patterns include "hearing Vs. listening," and "the Blow Job Pattern."
Do It Now-
Definitely NOT to be discussed!
This song is placed near the end to once again raise her heart rate in the anticipation of sex. It suggests the urgency of the situation and gives her her own reasons for getting down with you! Calibrate, watch her responses, and get ready for a sign that she is ready for you to MAKE YOUR MOVE!
Associated SS technique: DO IT NOW languaging
All Through the Night-
Most likely by this time the two of you are at least making out, and this song serves as great mood music for ye ol’ in/out. But it is also highly suggestive, great attention having been paid in it’s production to it’s ability to establish a "sultry" mood in women. the perfect closer for "Songs of Seduction," but probably not to be discussed with your victim....um...err...date. At least not to be dicussed with mere words!
One Last Word
Remember, some women respond immediately to this type of suggestion, and some have a kind of "delayed effect" and won’t realize the impact of the techniques until several hours after they’ve listened to the music. For some, albeit rare, women the entire CD is a bit too powerful and can cause sensation overload as well. For other women, the same music isn’t powerful enough, and for their seduction to take place the technology must be supplemented with NLP patterning or good old fashioned charm and seduction.
Experiment, have fun, and above all else don’t take NLP, Speed seduction, or the "Songs of Seduction" too seriously. All of these
things are very powerful and have incredible uses, but seduction MUST be fun. their power depends upon how casual you are in using them.
Good luck and happy seducing!
How To Get the Most Out Of Your Songs Of Seduction Album
The easiest and possibly most effective way to use this CD is to simply play it at a low but audible volume while you are talking with the object of your desires. Just forget about the music as you have a good time talking with the honey bunny you’re with.
A variation on this technique, especially when driving along in a car, is to tell her you have a cool new CD you want her to listen to, and then play the first two songs at a slightly louder listening level. the first two songs get her adrenaline flowing and introduce feelings of romance, connection, and attraction without being too ’over the top". Also, calling her attention to the music will get her subconscious locked onto it. After the the second or third song it would be a good idea to turn the volume back down to a level that is audible but which you are still able to talk above normally. Over-stimulation can be as detrimental as under-stimulation, so you don’t want to overload her with the music or force her to give all of her attention to the CD. Continue with small talk or your own methods of seduction while the music does it’s work on her in the background.
If you are a student of NLP or seduction, you may want to pick one or two of the songs to actually discuss with her. Don’t do more than two because it’s not generally considered normal to dissect a rock album like you would a piece of literature, especially on a date or romantic outting.
You can discuss the song you’ve picked by telling her it’s your favorite on the disc and you want to see what she thinks of it, or that you you know/met the guys in that particular band and want to see if she likes their work. Turn that up a little while the song plays and after it’s over, turn the cd back down to it’s normal level as your conversation goes on, or letting the rest of the music do it’s work subconsciously as you discuss the song in question. You can ask her what she thinks the lyrics mean, or how the music makes her feel. If a student of NLP, you can anchor these emotions. You can also spin patterns off of the thems of the song, or the trance words she gives to describe them. I will give you some pattern ideas for doing this in the the second section of this article.
Another way to use use this CD, although somewhat less effective, is to give it to your prospect. you have our permission to burn it for this purpose and this purpose ONLY, or if you would like extra resail copies you can order multiple CDs for discounted rates by emailing gruffbanejoe@hotmail.com
If using this approach, just tell her it’s the best CD you’ve heard in a while and you thought she would like it, or that you know a guy who plays in one of the bands that got on the album (You do by the way, it’s Me!).
You can also give her a subconscious suggestion by saying, "Mke sure you think of me when you’re listening to it!" with a wink and a laugh.........................or even more casually by saying the opposite, "Make sure you don’t THINK ABOUT ME when you’re listening to it, though.............there’s a few mushy love songs on it."
You can also put it in the multi-disc loop on your CD player and have the songs play randomly along with your other favorite music. This is a more casual use of the CD and is sure to help out your seduction through the power of suggestion, and is a great idea for parties in order to get the ladies in the mood, but the CD is most effective if the situation permits it to be played in order and entirely.
If you’re a seasoned NLP and seduction veteran, however, you may find that just playing one or two songs from the album and using them for a springboard to launch into themes, questions, and patterns is the best method for you.
On the next page is a list of the songs on the album with a description of each and some suggestions for utilizing their suggestive power.
Songs of Seduction Song List
Part I
Spicy Romantic-
This song introduces the album with upbeat romance, both th stimulate increase in heart-rate and to get her to feel those warm, fuzzy emotions. this is a song that you should simply let play. Refrain from discussing it, as it is meant to "warm her up" to seduction themes and to the rest of the music, and is not meant as a springboard for patterns or seduction themes. Women who are fans of Dave mathews Band, pearl jam. and john mayer will especially enjoy this song.
Where the Orchids Grow-
Another "warm up" song to "prime the pump" and get her ready for the seduction at hand, not meant to be dicussed as a theme or springboard for patterns or themes.
For Speed Seduction (TM ROSS JEFFRIES) Students, associated patterns for the first two songs include Incredible Connections, Falling In Love, Open Your Mind Completely, Fascination, etc.
To MJ-
This song was inspired by the "NLP" dialogue between MJ and Peter parker in the first Spiderman Movie. it introduces a mild hypnotic state through the power of rhythm and trance-inducing questions. if you choose this song to discuss witht he object of your desires, you need to be aware of the question the song asks....
"I asked of MJ what is the sign.....that first feeling deep inside.....the one that gives you your first clue.......this is the man you’ll give love to......"
You might ask the woman what she thinks the singer is talking about and listen to what she has to say. Then you can anchor her response and/or give her your own opinion, perhaps laced witht he trance words she has given you.
Try something like this:
"I think he’s talking about how people experience attraction. i mean, what if i were to ask you....What’s the first feeling you get as a sign inside yourself, or to yourself, that you are really starting to like this guy (sp) you’re hanging out with?"
Seduction studentswould do well to use Ross Jeffries Signal Recognition Technology (TM Ross Jeffries) when discussing this song or spinning patterns off of it.
Trance Dance-
Thise piece is a psychedelic trance song played here to bring her heart rate up to the "mildly excited" level and to suggest certain feelings and ideas into her subconscious, that they may be built upon later in the album. It’s a bit too direct to use as a theme to discuss with her, and it’s power lies rather in it’s ability to speak to the unconscious part of her mind. Keep it at an audible level, but it’s best to keep your current conversation going as it plays.
Part II
Now that we have established rapport with the music, suggested "Connection" and "Attraction" themes, and used NLP and rhythm to help her to begin thinking of those ’naughty’ ideas deep inside you’re mine..............................we will begin to mellow the music a bit to get her into a romantic mood before the earth-shattering, mind-blowing climax!
If you listened to the first part of the CD on the way to an event, play the rest of the CD on the way back home.
All That You Are-
A mood shifting song designed to help her begin to think romantically. best played in the background with little attention paid to it in your ongoing conversation.
Firefly-
Another song best not discussed, but layered with powerful suggestions of carnal pleasure. Just let it do it’s magic for you.
Melody-
This song is a metaphor comparing music to sex. it’s words are subtle and "lighten the pressure" at this point in her ongoing seduction. Only advanced students of seduction should attempt to discuss it or spin patterns from it’s lyrics.
For students of Ross jeffries: Associated patterns include "hearing Vs. listening," and "the Blow Job Pattern."
Do It Now-
Definitely NOT to be discussed!
This song is placed near the end to once again raise her heart rate in the anticipation of sex. It suggests the urgency of the situation and gives her her own reasons for getting down with you! Calibrate, watch her responses, and get ready for a sign that she is ready for you to MAKE YOUR MOVE!
Associated SS technique: DO IT NOW languaging
All Through the Night-
Most likely by this time the two of you are at least making out, and this song serves as great mood music for ye ol’ in/out. But it is also highly suggestive, great attention having been paid in it’s production to it’s ability to establish a "sultry" mood in women. the perfect closer for "Songs of Seduction," but probably not to be discussed with your victim....um...err...date. At least not to be dicussed with mere words!
One Last Word
Remember, some women respond immediately to this type of suggestion, and some have a kind of "delayed effect" and won’t realize the impact of the techniques until several hours after they’ve listened to the music. For some, albeit rare, women the entire CD is a bit too powerful and can cause sensation overload as well. For other women, the same music isn’t powerful enough, and for their seduction to take place the technology must be supplemented with NLP patterning or good old fashioned charm and seduction.
Experiment, have fun, and above all else don’t take NLP, Speed seduction, or the "Songs of Seduction" too seriously. All of these
things are very powerful and have incredible uses, but seduction MUST be fun. their power depends upon how casual you are in using them.
Good luck and happy seducing!
Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Your Free MP3s!
Alot of you have been asking for a sample of the music so, rather than send a seperate email to everybody, I thought I'd just direct you to our MySpace page. There are two songs on the profile that you can go ahead and START USING now for your seductions!
Now these aren't magic bullets- though both these songs are powerful, they carry a far greater impact when you play them together with the entire album that they're a part of. But the song "To MJ" is really amazing in it's power to bring out attraction in a female you're with listening to it with...and "Do It Now" carries strong suggestions to help you "close the deal" during the final phases of seduction. For seasoned PUAs and SSers who can spin stories and patterns off of these already trance inducing, arousing songs, these two songs may be all the edge you need to enhance your seduction sucsex!
But I feel totally confident that you'll enjoy these songs...so much that you'll be ready to get your own copy of the album, for your own reasons and your own listening pleasure, as well as for an additional seduction H-Bomb to add to your game arsenal!
Try it out, see what you think, and just imagine the power and influence the entire album will give you!Songs of Seduction on MySpace!!
Now these aren't magic bullets- though both these songs are powerful, they carry a far greater impact when you play them together with the entire album that they're a part of. But the song "To MJ" is really amazing in it's power to bring out attraction in a female you're with listening to it with...and "Do It Now" carries strong suggestions to help you "close the deal" during the final phases of seduction. For seasoned PUAs and SSers who can spin stories and patterns off of these already trance inducing, arousing songs, these two songs may be all the edge you need to enhance your seduction sucsex!
But I feel totally confident that you'll enjoy these songs...so much that you'll be ready to get your own copy of the album, for your own reasons and your own listening pleasure, as well as for an additional seduction H-Bomb to add to your game arsenal!
Try it out, see what you think, and just imagine the power and influence the entire album will give you!Songs of Seduction on MySpace!!
Wednesday, June 11, 2008
How Songs of Seduction Began Part II
Well the Song "To MJ" was a great success for my personal seduction pursuits, and enabled me to single out and get the attention of quite a few hot HBs who watched the band from the dance floor. I found that I could stare into a woman's eyes during the lyrics "I'm looking straight into your eyes" and go into rapport with the subject via Tom Vizzinni and Kim McFarland's "Golden Bubble" technique and sometimes even put the woman in trance right from the stage. I can't tell you how much easier this process made seducing women after a show. Sometimes they would even make a b-line for me after our last set, using the pretext that they absolutely loved the music in order to get into my pants. I felt like a rock star at last! And what's more, I felt like a rock star who actually gets to CHOOSE which women in the audience will become infatuated, which is surprisingly rare (just ask Neil Strauss).
But this paradise was not to last, because at the onset of this band, there were two singers...and the other singer was better than me. I got delegated to just lead guitar. Steven got to sing my hypnotic song, and though he didn't make use of it the way I did (he's a nice guy), he still got alot of women infatuated with him and it was easy to tell that it wasn't only because of his good looks and stellar musicianship. Not only was I feeding him seductive songs laced with NLP, but the other members of the band were beginning to catch my drift and wrote songs along the same vein for him to sing. What's more, the few cover songs we did were seductive in their own right: Bill Whithers, Al Green, etc. We realized that the key to a big following was women, because men go where the women are, and we also had our own alterior motives. So our band catered to women, seduction, and sexiness. Needless to say, though Steven was an AFC, he was constantly being chased by women.
At this time I was already making money on ebay selling various products for other seduction gurus, and one day it hit me. What if we could produce an album of this seductive music that would do for other people what it did for us?
I had been a psychology/music major in college, had become an NLP programmer through a slew of seminars and classes, and mastered NLP as it applied to seduction, so I already had a firm background to do the work. I began to study everything I could about the psychology of music, and used my press credentials to pick the brains of several psychologists whos background was in the effects of music on moods and sexuality. After five months of inspired songwriting, my friends and I had put together a potential album that, at least in theory, was perfectly suited for the hypnotic seduction of women.
An album of seduction should never be all "mood music" ala Barry White. Start out with smooth jazz on a first date and a woman is likely to get creeped out, or at the least think you're putting the cart before the horse. Whether using NLP laced language or not, we had come to understand that the body needed stimulation in it's preparation for sensuality and sex...
The beginning tempos were engineered to mimic the average heartbeat, and then as the album progresses the tempo is ramped up to increase the listener's pulse for an excited state of energy. This gets blood flowing to the genetalia, and helps to "prime the pump" for sex. Throughout the middle of the album, the tempos and pitches were formulated to induce beta highly suggestable beta state, so that the most powerful embedded commands couls seep into the subconscious, and the last songs on the album were perfectly formulated to lull the psyche into a sensuous, relaxed state. We wrote the lyrics using embedded commands and the process theories of SS which we had come to appreciate through our own successes (instilling interest, attraction, comfort, imagination, and finally horniness). We were sure that the combined power of conversational hypnosis and trance inducing music would be an incredible tool for the PUA community!
So we recorded the album in a prestigious local studio, even incorporating binaural beats on certain tracks in case the music was being played on headphones or surround sound for an extra trance-inducing pulse. Now all that was left was to see if it actually worked in real life, off of the stage, from a car stereo or home theater.
But this paradise was not to last, because at the onset of this band, there were two singers...and the other singer was better than me. I got delegated to just lead guitar. Steven got to sing my hypnotic song, and though he didn't make use of it the way I did (he's a nice guy), he still got alot of women infatuated with him and it was easy to tell that it wasn't only because of his good looks and stellar musicianship. Not only was I feeding him seductive songs laced with NLP, but the other members of the band were beginning to catch my drift and wrote songs along the same vein for him to sing. What's more, the few cover songs we did were seductive in their own right: Bill Whithers, Al Green, etc. We realized that the key to a big following was women, because men go where the women are, and we also had our own alterior motives. So our band catered to women, seduction, and sexiness. Needless to say, though Steven was an AFC, he was constantly being chased by women.
At this time I was already making money on ebay selling various products for other seduction gurus, and one day it hit me. What if we could produce an album of this seductive music that would do for other people what it did for us?
I had been a psychology/music major in college, had become an NLP programmer through a slew of seminars and classes, and mastered NLP as it applied to seduction, so I already had a firm background to do the work. I began to study everything I could about the psychology of music, and used my press credentials to pick the brains of several psychologists whos background was in the effects of music on moods and sexuality. After five months of inspired songwriting, my friends and I had put together a potential album that, at least in theory, was perfectly suited for the hypnotic seduction of women.
An album of seduction should never be all "mood music" ala Barry White. Start out with smooth jazz on a first date and a woman is likely to get creeped out, or at the least think you're putting the cart before the horse. Whether using NLP laced language or not, we had come to understand that the body needed stimulation in it's preparation for sensuality and sex...
The beginning tempos were engineered to mimic the average heartbeat, and then as the album progresses the tempo is ramped up to increase the listener's pulse for an excited state of energy. This gets blood flowing to the genetalia, and helps to "prime the pump" for sex. Throughout the middle of the album, the tempos and pitches were formulated to induce beta highly suggestable beta state, so that the most powerful embedded commands couls seep into the subconscious, and the last songs on the album were perfectly formulated to lull the psyche into a sensuous, relaxed state. We wrote the lyrics using embedded commands and the process theories of SS which we had come to appreciate through our own successes (instilling interest, attraction, comfort, imagination, and finally horniness). We were sure that the combined power of conversational hypnosis and trance inducing music would be an incredible tool for the PUA community!
So we recorded the album in a prestigious local studio, even incorporating binaural beats on certain tracks in case the music was being played on headphones or surround sound for an extra trance-inducing pulse. Now all that was left was to see if it actually worked in real life, off of the stage, from a car stereo or home theater.
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